What is wrong with bus drivers?
 

Seems like a bad time in history to be riding a bus... tour busses, school busses, any of 'em.
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Bus driver arrested in fatal crash that killed 6 children in Tennessee

The driver of a school bus that crashed, killing at least six children and injuring dozens, has been arrested, authorities in Chattanooga, Tennessee, said.
On Monday afternoon, a school bus carrying 35 students from Woodmore Elementary School slammed into a tree and split apart. Chattanooga Police Chief Fred Fletcher described the incident as "an absolute nightmare for this community."

At least five children died on the scene, and one died at a hospital, said a spokeswoman from the Hamilton County District Attorney's Office.

Bus driver arrested in fatal crash that killed 6 children in Tennessee - CNN.com

The driver in this incident, Johnthony Walker, 24, has been charged with five counts of vehicular homicide, reckless endangerment and reckless driving.

And his eyes look a little red in that mug shot... I'm sure he wasn't driving while stoned, though.

"Johnthony"? Sorry, but ...

This is so tragic. I would guess that the quality of bus drivers is directly linked to the rate of pay. But that's just a guess. Another one turned over on I-65 just last week. I don't think there were any serious injuries on that one.

Do they do background checks on school bus drivers?

Very sad story.

He had to be hauling buns to hit a tree that hard.

I always wonder why buses don't have seat belts. It likely would have saved some lives if the kids were belted in. Of course driving carefully will save even more.

In Sweden they do have seatbelts.

And of course those busses should have datarecording!

To my knowledge, seatbelts are NOT standard on US school buses.

From the article linked: Fletcher said "a warrant has been issued to remove the informational box on the school bus and review the video."

Seatbelts are not mandatory in the US but there is a push to change that.

Tragic story. I can't imagine what those parents are going through. My kids don't ride a bus as we are close to their schools.

My first thought when I saw the pics was that the bus had to have been pretty fast to wrap around the tree like it did.

Most of the school bus drivers I see are older women and men. 24 years old seems to be very young to drive a school bus. My heart goes out to the parents of the deceased children.

Tragic......

I have a friend who was a truck driver for a few years, then a charter bus driver for a while. She learned to drive her father's grain truck when she was 16 and was hauling grain around Illinois (farm use permit) by age 18, hauling grain to ports in Houston at 21. She finished college and was done driving by the age of 25 or 26. She basically said driving truck is what you do when you are too dumb to do anything else.
She's funny to listen to - they have their own language. She says, " I was driving truck at 16," but says, "I was a bus driver ..." I don't know why being a truck driver is referred to as "driving truck" but being a bus driver is referred to as, "being a bus driver."

I have my school bus license.

Getting a license to drive a bus is not easy for most people in that you not only need to take written tests but must also do a full inspection of the bus you will be driving and a driving test that includes parallel parking. The inspection includes checking fluids, belts, tires, suspension and more. Laws regarding the licensing of bus drivers is done on the federal level.

In our area, the schools do background checks. Average pay for driving for a daycare $15/hr. Average to drive for a school district 27-30K/year with benefits.

I drove a truck for ten years. It was nice to have my mind to myself. Still work in the industry. I'd like to go back and drive for 6 months just to get some mental rest.

I'd like to know what the details are with this crash. Sounds like he was just going way too fast, but why?

The school bus, which had dozens of children onboard, was barreling down a narrow and winding road Monday afternoon, according to an arrest affidavit.

"Mr. Walker lost control of the bus and swerved off of the roadway to the right, striking an elevated driveway and mailbox, swerved to the left and began to overturn, striking a telephone pole and a tree," the affidavit says.

Witness statements and physical evidence showed that Walker was traveling "at a high rate of speed, well above the posted speed limit of 30 mph," according to the affidavit.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/us/tennessee-chattanooga-school-bus-accident/index.html

My wife told me she heard he had been drinking, but I don't see anything about that in that article.

apparently seat belts are required in school buses in 6 states, mostly in the North East US. Its about cost, right? Same as the salary for drivers. We get the safety we pay for. Very sad for everyone. Pray for the families, and the survivors, scarred for years to come.

Not sure how much seatbelts would've helped in this case... judging by the looks of it, at least some of the students were probably crushed.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1479854218.jpg

Studies have been done showing seatbelts being a good thing on school busses, but of course, there will be accidents in which students will die because they couldn't get them off in time to get out, like in case of fire or being submerged.

But... like with cars and trucks, the greater good always goes with being belted in as dying because you're belted in is 1 in 10,000 odds.

And kids being belted in would cut down on discipline problems somewhat also. Ask any school bus driver.

Now they are reporting he asked the kids "Are you ready to die?" as hen sped up.

That's what I heard too...sped up and intentionally swerved into the tree. If so, he is a sicko :(.

FWIW, back when dinosaurs roamed and I was in school, I think you only had to be 17 here to drive a school bus....I remember some of my rural cousins driving them while they were in hs.

Tragic....I can't imagine how those parents are coping...

What's wrong with bus drivers? Nothing, per se. They almost uniformly receive a lot more training than 'regular' drivers, and their job depends to some extent on how they drive. I am broadly familiar with the training regimen for CTA bus drivers (Chicago) and it is pretty rigorous. The safety record of school buses has been an excellent one, and this has been based in substantial part on how they are driven. This was tragic but seems rather an exception to the norm for school bus drivers.

I have been asked a couple of times to become a driver for our district. I have the license required and could pass the D/A test without issue.

I've declined as I do not want the responsibility of transporting children.

I remember turning 25, and receiving a BIG DISCOUNT ON INSURANCE... because I had "learned to drive." Evidently, at 25, insurance companies know there is some big statistical decrease in claims.

As others have mentioned, his age seems young. It would seem that insurance rates for bus drivers would also be predicated on certain age ranges, and that his young age would have been a risk. I am surprised the "fleet discount" would apply to such young applicants since insurance companies already know the risk.

Every bus driver I know (or can remember) has been older... ancient... well... at least 25 (except for the simpson's bus driver dude)

As a parent of a 4.5 year old, this story tears at my heart. Scary stuff.

edit.. never mind. At age 25 I had also received an EVOC (emergency vehicle operating certificate/license)- so technically, I could have driven an ambulance. I declined, specifically, for the responsibility involved, as well as a hostile legal environment for ambulance drivers (being followed by ambulance chasers). There was a lot of training for this privilege. Due to the liability I declined (hmmmm... consistent theme?).

From what I remeber from m a high school debate speech I wrote about 30 years ago, busses didn't mandate seatbelts because the same reasons for implementing seatbelts in cars were considered different for busses. Cars often had dashboards with wood (which could splinter in an accident) or other sharp edges in general. Seatbelts were implemented to minimize the chance we'dimpe ourselves on these pokey spikes. It's.

Busses, though, only had padded setbacks (of the seat in front of you), so belts weren't considered as important/necessary. At least that was the rationale in forming the original regulations.

Also, in the event of a rollover accident where the vehicle stops upside down, a seatbelt in a car will only suspend you a few inches from the ceiling (small distance to fall when you or a rescuer unbelt yourself), whereas a seatbelt will suspend a victim possibly several feet from the ceiling-turned-floor.

RIP to the little ones. :(. Condolences to the families and friends.

A friend of mine was the boss of the project mangers for a bank. As the result of internal politics he got thrown out and ended up being a school bus driver.

He said the kids run riot on the bus and that's fine but one little girl, about eight, started throwing food and it was my friends job to keep the bus clean too so he asked her to stop. She called him all sorts of names, including the C word in a furious outburst. So when she got dropped off and her dad was there to meet her my friend got off the bus and told the father about the whole incident. He said the little girls face went bright red and all the other kids were watching with delight out the windows LOL

There is the possibility the bus and/or driver were contracted out. Contractors may not as strict with their driver requirements or maintenance. I saw a news bit about how school bus drivers around the U.S. have received tickets and never were disciplined or had to pay fines.

When I've asked this question, the answer I've received, is if they equip seat belts, but they aren't used, the bus line/owner becomes liable for not checking and ensuring that passengers used the belts. The legal liability of not having seat belts is lower, than if they had them.

Can't remember my source, not sure of the validity. Pure hearsay.

It appears that is the case in this incident.

Seatbelts are mandatory for school buses in some states, including California and Texas. School buses otherwise meet occupant protection through "compartmentalization" which is the padding and high seats designed to keep people in a small area. Works very well for most accidents but not so much in a roll-over.

As far as the drivers go, there is a nation wide shortage of all commercial drivers including bus drivers. Because of this, they are going deeper into the hiring pool to get ANYBODY to drive a bus who can obtain a CDL, pass a DOT medical, and submit a clean urine test...

Just had a young friend (23) get his CDL to drive a school bus. He did not have a CDL when he applied. They gave him the training and helped him get his license. He starts driving in January. Zero experience driving anything bigger than a pickup truck. He's actually a pretty careful fellow, I think he'll do all right. Just a lot of pressure without a lot of experience...

angela

I have been a driver of mass transit buses and cross country luxury buses. They don't pay enough to get top shelf people as drivers. That is a reason.

Will be interesting to learn what really happened as none of it makes much sense.

Driver was employed by a private contractor, no criminal record and toxicology reports all came back negative. The road he crashed on was not part of his normal route. As to the "kids ready to die" , per police is totally unsubstantiated at this point.

Interesting that several parents had complained about his driving prior to this. Wonder if the company took any action or just ignored them ?? One thing is certain, gonna be a lot of lawsuits come out of this....

Anyone remember when Fred & Barney applied & got part jobs driving school buses? They were hired on the spot, couldn't believe how lucky they were. Then the director takes them to the drivers lounge where all the current bus drivers are ' relaxing'.

As the door slams, the drivers jump off the couch, like they had PTSD..................

I do not currently know the details specific to Chattanooga, but many school districts contract their school transportation to companies in an effort to save money.

Based on my experience with these type of companies in some areas, in order to be the low bidder but still make a profit, they have minimal standards for drivers, minimal training, and pay close to minimum wage.

I have to wonder how guilty the politicians ("...we can't raise taxes") and the school board ("...we can't spend more money") are in this tragic incident. Maybe more of them will realize that saving money on areas that impact student safety has a downside.

Just saw a segment on local news saying that investigators have discovered that this guy had recently taken a job at Amazon Fullfillment Services, so they're looking at the fact that fatigue (they may have said mental fatigue) may have contributed to the accident. I'm guessing they meant sleep deprivation.

I haven't heard any more about toxicology.

Back in the '70s, I was a school bus driver for a while and this was the case in the district where I worked. I was only in my early 20s at the time and was hired on the spot without even a single question being asked...just filled out an application and that was it. Drivers needed to have a physical before actually getting behind the wheel, but it was a total joke. The charter company had a deal with a local "Dr. Feelgood" to just rubber stamp the paperwork. The "physical" consisted of talking sports with the doc for a few minutes before being sent on my way with an OK to be a school bus driver. For "training", I just drove the bus around town for a half hour with a couple of the old timers sitting in the back shooting the chit for the whole time. As long as I didn't hit anything, I was good to go.
Hopefully, that district's requirements are more strict now than they were back then.

There isn't enough money to get me to drive a school bus unless I'm allowed to put kids in this situation (if necessary).

I've seen too many videos on youtube of unruly kids of various ages. These days, many just don't seem to have any respect for anyone or fear of consequences.

http://figuresworld.net/movies_tv/si...annibal_04.jpg

It was pretty much the same 40 years ago when I drove a school bus. I did runs for grammar schools, middle schools and high schools. The middle school kids were, by far, the worst. Climbing around over the seats, constantly grab-assing with each other, and the noise level was usually off the charts. They would throw each others books & lunchboxes out the windows, and one time, I had a kid cut up several seats with a knife! When things got too wild, I'd pull the bus to the curb and tell them we weren't moving 'till they settled down. That usually restored order 'cause they all wanted to get home, but usually not before a few gripes of "You ass'ole" or "Fk you" from way in the back. I'd report the worst of 'em to the school, their bus privileges would be revoked, and then they'd be gone for good.
The grammar school kids were easy...very respectful and well-behaved for the most part. The high school kids, while generally fairly calm, must've thought that the driver was just part of the bus, 'cause they would just talk among themselves like I wasn't even there. Heard lots of juicy gossip about their families, teachers and other students on those runs. And it was always an interesting afternoon when a group of the older HS girls would declare the occasional "No-Bra Day" and jiggle their way down the aisle as they got off the bus.