One of my kids elected to skip college and get into the Air Force. He chose the field of electronics, had a nice career doing some interesting things and was highly recruited when he decided to leave. He entered the medical electronics field working for a company that made surgical robots and had a good time with that. The pay was good, the stock otions were great, he enjoyed his work.

One benefit to the military is that they pay you while they school you and, if you are good, you can write your own ticket to a certain extent.

JR

Damn it... Disregard my previous post, as I am in an office.

http://benweingarten.com/wp-content/...on-Waddams.jpg

You said: "has no preexisting "love" of flying or aviation" I could not imagine doing something I did not love to do: I could not get out of bed in the morning:

Well said. I should say that while I sound cynical in my prev post, it comes from years of sitting on flight decks listening to pilots. Some are brilliant, laid-back, funny, smart and they become life-long friends. Many are unhappy from a lifetime of poor decisions, bad marriages, poor spending habits, unreasonable expectations and just generally poor attitudes. If you can keep the toxic stuff at bay and focus on the good things the job holds for you then it is a great career.

Save your money. Don't rush into expensive things like marriage and children without first giving it a good, hard number-crunching. If the bride-to-be is a good earner in a stable career then proceed. With caution. Pay off your house if you choose to buy one and forego the big Dodge Ram and bass boat. Rent them.

Airline and corporate pilots who have a lot of toys are either rich already from inherited family money, married well, have a successful business on the side, etc. Only a very few senior guys at the legacy carriers are pulling in the big bucks.

I did 18 years in the copilot seat and heard a lot of BS. Now that I am in the left seat my attitude is positive. I like to say to my copilots, "Only we can kill our joy. This is our dream job so let's act that way." I buy the beer on layovers too.

I think you have to really want to do it. Particularly the pilot side. As mentioned above the starting salaries in the minor carriers are minimal. However if you are in it for the long term and get on with a major carrier then the salaries are better. Generally the bigger the aircraft the bigger the salary.

Having said that the irritations are weather delays, mechanical delays and air traffic delays. I believe pensions have disappeared in the US airlines.

Corporate? On call a lot. Instructing? Hard work.

The airline pilots I know who have a few years to go look forward to retiring. I think all jobs have their pluses and minuses.

Simply put it is what you make it....

As regards total automation of aircraft without pilots? It could happen but I think unlikely. There are aspects of aircraft operation that require so much human intervention.

$100K-$200k/yr base salary.

These overpaid f'kers almost killed me and and several family members a couple times.
They pop in for a quick 10 minute interview then and leave.
That is their obligation.
No oversight.

Become a registered nurse.
Then a nurse anesthesiologist.

Nurse Anesthetist (CRNA) Salary

Would I advise youngsters to avoid aviation as a career choice? I’m a 36 year engineer sitting in a cubicle with my daughter that has worked here less than 5 years. It all depends on what they are looking for. Benefits would be:
1.) If you like airplanes or even just mechanical things, this is a good opportunity – you won’t dread having to go to work in the morning.
2.) You could have a career where you can raise a family and live in the same general area for many years.
3.) Your pay will allow you to live comfortably.
The down sides would be:
1.) The business is cyclical. We need lots of engineers during design, then not so many as we enter the production phase – until the next big airplane comes along. Although, these days, new airplanes are much closer together.
2.) You won’t get rich. Don’t plan on buying a new car and affording a house in this area on a single income.
The industry has not "had its day" in America. Where it is true that more and more of the assembly is going overseas, the engineering is definitely still “in house”. During the 787 and just after, they tried to have us engineers define what we did, so they could farm out the actual engineering. Just plug in any old engineer from India or Russia, tell them what to do, and voila! Instant airplane. They quickly discovered that it costs much more to fix bad design late in the production phase rather than do it right to begin with. You can’t just write down everything it is that we do.
A few good comments so far:
Jeff said “they are actually paying guys like me to leave so our positions can be filled by markedly lesser paid grads”. This is very true. Many engineers are being forced to retire early or move to other parts of the country.
Aschen said “get a more general ME degree and focus on aerospace related disciplines (CFD)”. This is very good advice. What I do, can mostly only be done in Seattle. Not much chance of moving around if my job goes away. One of my big regrets is not learning CFD. I think you could do a lot with that technology – work in the country of your choosing – or open a small engineering firm that could make a killing on government contracts.
The other field that I had a brief glimpse of was accident investigation and reading the flight data recorders. With the increased number of airplanes, the unfortunate truth is that there will be more incidents. I worked with a guy that lived on Lake Washington, and could read a damaged FDR better than anyone else in the world. If it was bad enough, he could grab data one character at a time and restore data that no one else could. When he retired, on one took his place.
I have several young engineers that work for me. I envy the career they have ahead of them, but like Jeff, the benefits and pay that we enjoyed over our lifetime is not being offered anymore. No pensions. Healthcare costs going up. COEs and upper management getting paid more and more……..

I spent 27 years flying a helicopter. The last twenty flying air ambulance which is 24/7/365. Some of air ambulance can be exciting or boring but other times getting a call at 2:00 in the morning to find an accident scene in a dark hole at the bottom of a canyon can be... interesting (but exciting in a stressful way). Much of what PoP has said is true but some of it has changed/evolved. The flying part is the fun part but all the stuff surrounding the flying can suck the enjoyment out of it. Air Ambulance has gotten very heavily regulated.

Sometimes I speak with airline pilots and there is a little envy (the salary and travel mostly, helicopter pilots don't make anywhere near what senior airline captains can make). But there has been more than a few times when I was flying in a remote or rugged area, low level in Alaska or someplace. Setting up for an approach on a ridgeline or clearing, almost all off-airport work. I'd have a passenger in the back who might be an airline pilot. They would tap me on the shoulder and say something like: "I'm a pilot flying a 757 for United, what I do isn't flying - this is flying!"

That would put things into perspective. Then, on the flip side I'd have to do a long cross country occasionally, about one or two hour legs, a few hours total. Most light helicopters don't have autopilots. I had just landed from one of those long flights and was talking with one of the fixed wing guys at our company about the flight. When I said how long the flight was he said: "You flew that whole cross country - by hand?". I laughed, I didn't know any different.

As a professional pilot you hear the griping as stated above. I've been laid off too. And you must remain in good health (I still am knock on wood). You have to think about what you'd do if you lost your medical. Even a simple illness in the regular job world can be stressful for a pilot.

Strangely, but not surprisingly, when I quit my last job, two of my pilot co-workers said they were looking to get out and do something else as well (I work for the Federal Govt. now).

Looking back I wouldn't trade my flying and the things I've done and seen for anything. I've got some incredible memories. But, I'll tell many that want to get into it have something to fall back on - just in case. Or, like Dantilla, make a good living and fly on the side.

Sorry to ramble, just one pilot point of view...

One more thing to add... If he really wants to fly, go in the military. He will get his ratings on the govt's dime while getting paid and when he gets out, he can skip the regionals and go right to the majors with preferential hiring and zero debt and had have a much better quality of life along the way.

Excellent info guys, I sincerely appreciate it. As you might have guessed this is in reference to one of my sons. He's 12 and is looking at applying to a local academy/high school that we have here in Grand Rapids that is dedicated to aviation (it's a really amazing/unique school). He attended an open house there, got to "fly" the genuine simulator and spoke with the various educators hosting it for a couple hours. He's understandably excited about the idea but had not previously expressed any interest in aviation related careers (other than general engineering). He's obviously too young to plot out his life but this info will definitely help with this particular fork in the road. I'll filter the great stuff in this thread when we discuss it (if I don't just read it with him), thanks again everyone!

12 is kind of young. I had no clue at 12.
I barely had a clue at 20.
Around 25, a plan started to gel.
When I was 28, I finally put a pin in it and started working hard toward the goal.

Don't let him wait that long.
12 may be early, but he should have a solid goal by... I dunno, maybe 15 or 16.
And believe me, chasing tail in a hotrod car is not a life goal. (It is a good hobby, though.)

Help him figure it out. Start guiding him now.
(I see that you are, by asking these questions.)



And an aside; As a kid who hated math classes (and algebra, trig, etc), I often used the phrase, "This isn't going to be of use to me in real life."

Boy, was I was wrong.

This is very good advice. A mechanical engineer can work in aerospace or a number of other fields. Aerospace engineering is much more limited. Unless he is very specifically interested in aerodynamics or orbital mechanics I would recommend at least an ME major, the AE courses can easily be picked up with a double major or minor if desired.

The CRNA gig isn't a cake walk either.

Go to med school an become an anestheisologist. It takes similar time to get where you end up but and you get to surf the net and chat up anyone who will listen while the CRNAs are stuck in a room for hours and hours...all while making triple CRNA pay. That pay and time off will get you a kickass private plane and plenty of time to enjoy it on your terms.