Why Not Bring back the 912?
 

A new 991 will cost you $70K base. Granted the 718s are cheaper and some say intro but why not a 912 today? Have the same lines as the 991 but not as beefy, drop in boxing 4.

I like the idea.. if at the same time they 'add lightness'

Boxster and Cayman were designed to replace the 912..........

You can only go so light and remain up to safety standards. The vehicle would be a greatly underpowered sports car that would sell very few even if they were someone able to make them very much cheaper. That's pretty much why VW had never release a car similar to the boxster. Could not make it cheap enough.

I thought it was $90k for a base 991.

Actually, the 914 was designed as a VW...but the point you make is a valid one.

Porsche need to design their version of the Miata. Folding roof, not a soft top.

2.0+Liter , Dual cam, 16 valve, 4 Cylinder... Engine up front with 6 speed manual gearbox on the rear axle. (Sound familiar?)

The 912 has always been cool but an updated 944 - 968 would be more economical to produce.
One problem though. VW doesn't have a current suitable platform. (Would you buy a Porsche that was assembled in South Africa?)

Price it about 5% more than a Miata and it would sell like hot cakes.

And are a better driving and better looking car.

Heck, why not bring back the 924, and the 944? And lower prices. The other day I pulled up behind a brand new 911 super car, it had air vents all over the place, lots of turbo goodies, I thought that thing must the price of a small home, the car looked trick, but I couldn't justify spending that kind of cash for that thing any way!http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482163524.jpg

I was thinking about this very thing this weekend.

I went for a ride with a friend of mine who has a 2007 Carrera S Cab.

My last Porsche was a 1994 964 which has about 100 less HP than the Carrera. The difference in ride, handling and acceleration was astounding. I couldn't believe how much better the Carrera was.

But honestly, I don't need the extra 100hp to be happy. I know there is an arms race among the high end sports car manufacturers, but a lot less weapons yield would interest me.

Cheer up guys. There is life after having a Por$che own you. Actually, a pretty good one.

Heard rumors of a 4 cyl turbo 911.
This would really be a turbo 912, ehh?

the cayman is the car for you then.

A new 991 will cost you a lot more than 70 base, I think base MSRP was 85 for a 991.1, it might be higher for .2 model and you know PCNA, they did not import more than 3 cars without $10K of options minimum... ;-)

To your point re: 912, the thing is the base 3.4 991.1 only makes around 280-something lb-ft or torque. The v2 is 330 base... If they dropped the 718 4 banger in there at 280-309 l-ft depending on model and lighter weight, they'd *totally* cannibalize the base 911... So they won't. 718 IS the entry model, and frankly the more agile sports car. The 991 retains a traction advantage however..

The 912 only existed because the jump from 356 to 911 was traumatically expensive and they needed something cheaper to replace the 356. Porsche is selling all the 911s they make, so they aren't worried...

Having now finally driven a 718 and my new-to-me used 991, I can confirm that the torque of the new car is sweet, but that there is more to life than torque... The scream of a flat 6 is where it's at for me.... If I was looking at a 718 I'd buy a discounted 981 instead.

Something tells me Porsche would still find a way to make a 4-cylinder 991 cost over 100k.

The Caymans are all getting 4 cylinder turbos. It was in another thread already.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/939636-20-yrs-boxster-car-saved-porsche.html

Given Porsche's direct access to the VW parts bin there's no reason it can't be done....but the problem is it will take sales away from VW and Audi's less costly sport models so MotherVW will never allow Porsche to do it since they hold total control. Same thing that GM has done for decades...tons of cool concept cars that will never see the light of day b/c they could tip the balance of the big picture finances...the accountants make all the decisions at VAG now as the GM of Europe.

Yup...like the 911R and similar stripped down models over the past three decades...charge MORE for LESS. :(:confused::rolleyes:

Tough to do in today's market and safety standards. There are almost no true sports cars left, just grand touring cars masqueraded as sports cars. Why? Nobody wants a true sports car anymore, at least no one but us. :rolleyes:

Why I have a Lotus now. :D

I could care less whether it was 4 or 6 banger, a tiny displacement Nine 12 cyl..... whateva' this or that but would only hope someday Porsche go on a diet.

Too much 'sugar' and fat ass Brazilian butt.

https://www.netcarshow.com/Porsche-9...64-1024-0b.jpg

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/or...28fda2624f.jpg

Today's entry level Porsche is a used Porsche.

Porsche has no interest in making any car that they cannot realize at least an 8,000 dollar profit on, much less a car that would compete with a Miata.

Used 2.5 Boxsters are way under 10 grand. There is your 912.

Telling you current safety standards won't allow building a car like the 912 or even a 914 affordably. That is where the boxster and cayman is.

Exactly. And the federal mandated stuff like back up sensors, and, traction control, tire pressure sensors and on and on. No one wants a low hp Porsche.

VW is the parent company, but the Porsche family owns 51% of VW so they can exert the pressure to have Porsche do what they want. If the family can agree. Big if.

Buy on look and/or performance and/or affordability. A 912 could hit 2 of 3 which is plenty good enough in many cases. I like the look of the 991.

Cost and horrible sales figures.

Building a 991, and then just putting in a smaller, cheaper (less powerful engine), probably isn't that much cheaper than putting in the standard engine. So you sell a giant, heavy "sports car" that's underpowered, and it gets laughed at. If the body is the same, it wouldn't be that much lighter from just losing 2 cylinders, right. So now you have a car that costs more than the boxster/cayman, is heavier than a boxster/cayman AND is slower than the boxster/cayman.

You'd have to make it much smaller and lighter and cheaper. So for them to make something smaller, lighter and cheaper than a boxster/cayman, it wouldn't be like the 991 any more.

Besides, unless they made something like a Lotus, it would put them competing with the miata for more $$$ which doesn't make much sense.

One reason the original 912 was made is Porsche had a large stock of 356 engines left over when production of the 356 was done. They wanted to use up that supply. The 912E was during the gas shortage years and gas was very expensive and had to get. On of my friends bought a 912E in 76 and it whole go from Germany to Italy and back not need a refill.

The 912E was a one-year only car to fill the gap between the 914 and the 924.

Both the 914 and the 924 were supposed to be VW's... given to Pcar to save them from bankruptcy.

(VW, Audi and Porsche were all the same company then, too.)

People don't, in general, want bare bones cars. They only pretend they do.

Look at what sells, and what sells weighs a lot because people want 'comfort'. Heated and cooled seats, AC, 20+ air bags, miles of wiring, crumple zones, power windows, power sunroofs, 16 speakers, thick carpet, noise damping pads, and on and on and on.

The days of the 912 are long gone and not returning.

Tesla could get another 100 miles of range by cutting 'luxuries'. They chose not to because the market demands them.

Try driving an under-powered car as a daily driver. I do it year round in a diesel (and I suspect my diesel is much faster than a 912). It's hard work in traffic.

Only the US importer was the same. VW bought AUDI in the 1960s. Porsche was 100% independent until they tried to buy VW. Their plan failed and resulted in a margin call and Porsche had to sell to VW. The Porsche familys did get 51% of VW however so Porsche is unique in their control of their destiny.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/05/volkswagen-buys-porsche

This is hurting my head. Third paragraph states 52% voting rights.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/this-billionaire-family-could-fix-vw-but-it-s-not

Yea. It is kinda complex. Ok 52% I am ok with that. Last I heard it was 51 and something percent. I guess they bought some more shares.

hell if you want a 912, just go buy one. Cheaper than a new boxster or Cayman.
One of the things I like about my 914 is that it has no frills. Basic car. Handles great get s good mileage, goes as fast as my 66 year old ass wants to. Easy to fix..

No one would buy one, they wouldn't be able to lower the price enough to lure anyone in. Back in the sixties the power-train represented a much larger piece of the sales number pie. These days it's a much smaller. You'd be shocked at what you'd still have to pay for a 300 HP 991 on skinnies.

JHMO

Glad you brought up the point. Power brokers. Damn.

On topic, I have to think the 912 version of the newest 911 would be viewed as the bicycle powered Ferdinand GT3 RS for a mere $57k.

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Hard work.... LOL
More like being lazy and the fatso effect. Thats what these 'sporty portly' cars are.

These days, justifying for being fat is because people like Kim Kardashian made it the fashion. Seriously. The 'Fat' industry is BIG (pun) $$$$$$$$$. The food industry uses a staggering amount more of sugars vs. three decades ago. Subliminal as they incrementally increased volumes to what we have today.

And just as you mention, 'they pretend' to want to lose weight, but rarely succeed. Join health clubs, just to say they belong OR buy all sorts of home fitness equipment that only the spiders use for making cobwebs. The sporting retailer insiders estimate 88% of home fitness equipment buyers don't use it. :eek:

Too lazy and its gotten so bad with the push button lifestyle that smartphones apps controlling everything in their house and life is what they ooh and ah for. Can't even get get off the couch only 10 ft. away from a device such as TV.... gotta have that remote.

Of course we'll never see new production small and tidy trim Porsche's. The 90 percentile won't be able to get their ass in it.

Now that's a tirade!

...so who you callin' "pushbutton"?

Wow. So that's why we don't have a 912? Who knew. :D