718 sales numbers ? What do you think ?
 

Just wondering, anyone knows if the 718s (cayman or boxster form) are flying off the shelves like Macans.... or not ? I've always been a fan of the Boxster/Cayman line, owned 3 total of different eras, but I suspect the 718 will tank...

Not because it's not a good car, it's great - I drove one. It's beautiful, quick, finally gives you more torque, sound is not fantastic but not awful either. But in the end those are toys, and a lot of people who buy toys are car-people, and I'm not sure an enthusiast would pay 60 grand + for a turbo-4 like a GTI's ! The dealer I visited had older 981s which were not marked down because "people want the 6"... Hope I'm wrong, those will be sweet in the used market in a few years, by which time tuners will have found ways to boost them... (for the record the sales guy there mocked my query about a stick, so I gave up and bought a used stick 991 instead, elsewhere)

It's a little bit like Grand Tour viewership numbers, can't seem to find #s on sales.... Just wondering how it's doing.

Don't they publish monthly sales numbers in Panorama?

There was a three about Boxsters here on PPOT last week. Mentioned that "the car that saved Porsche" is ironically selling very slowly at the moment.

I've seen a few around here. I'm sure they will eventually pick up as people get used to the idea. Haven't there been similar backlash issues when changes have been made before, IE water-cooling/996, 356->911, etc...

Hard to say. I hate the idea of the turbo inline 4, but there are a lot of people out there who have zero clue about the engineering of these cars. Maybe if the engines start to blow up, I can buy an interior in good shape. I love those interiors.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure they are flat-four engines...

^ I guess that makes them easier to like. And the whole 919 Hybrid thing is making more sense now too.

Absolutely. It's 2/3 of a flat 6, not an I4 or V4.

That was a real issue for me when test driving one... Compared to the wail of a flat 6, that flat 4 pulled way more, but sounded like a subaru.. definitely flat 4, not bad, but not $60K good either.... I almost went for a 981 instead but in the end got a cheaper slightly used 991...

I think many of us are in the minority. Lots of the newer Porsche buyers are buying it because it is a Porsche, just like they bought BMWs. It is more a status symbol than anything else. The car will never be driven the way it was meant to be.

Boxster: October -25.7% / 10 months -10.5%
Cayman: October -16.5% / 10 months -1.5%

Thanks to Macan / Porsche YTD 1.5%

919: That's a V4, no?

Should be noted that the Cayman and Boxster have swapped positions in the price ladder (Cayman is now cheaper than the Boxster).

LOL oh heck I don't know, don't confuse me.

Here's an interesting look at the new motor:
PorscheBoost - A technical look at Porsche's new 'B4' modular turbo flat-4 engines and comparison to the B6 turbo flat-6 including redline, bore x stroke, compression ratio...

I wonder how they will address the added cooling needed? In a mid-engine that's not very easy to do.

One heck of a V4:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1482512846.JPG

^^ Think it'll fit in a 914? ^^

The sad fact is, the average new Porsche buyer probably doesn't know what the engine displacement or configuration is in their car anyway. It's faster than the old car, handles better, and gets better MPG. Most will be good with that. The car geeks like us might miss the flat six, but we all buy used anyway.;)

I wish they would have released a version with a 2.5 Liter, flat 4 NA engine.
give or take 200 horses a bit less weight and good engine sound.
And a bit cheaper.


Let's face it, most people can't handle 300 much less 350 hp anyway.
I know I can't use all those horses to the fullest.
But I know I can handle 200 horses in most conditions.

200hp and 2200lbs would be awesome. A real purist strippy. :cool:

The ironic thing is that the tests I've read the new car gets worse fuel economy. This is logical because it has more area under the power curve, but the whole reason for them switching to the turbo 4 was to get better EPA numbers. And I think the EPA numbers aren't all that much better than the 6. Plus the turbo 4 is bigger/heavier than the naturally aspirated 6.

how are EPA numbers done?
probably not under load, but simply a fixed test routine where lower revs are needed.
eg the flat 4's lower displacement, at low boost comes out better then a bigger displacement.


Basically they use the Turbo as dial a yield.
leave it in standard mode, not much revs, = just the pollution of a 2 liter flat 4


I bet it can be driven very economical, much more economical then a 6er that has the same or even less power.

But obviously nobody drives like that, it's tedious and boring.
I've done it just to try how far i could push my BMW 1 series.
I got 1150 km out of a 50 liter tank of diesel, 65mpg

But it really means driving 90kph on the high way, drafting trucks, coasting , anticipating, avoiding short distance driving, etc etc.

I'm pretty sure if i really pushed it, checked tire pressure, emptied the trunk, did only highway, No cold starts, i could have gotten 68+mpg out of it..

But the real mpg of that car with me driving it was far from those numbers
Normal driving, 45mpg
Spirited driving, 35 or less


The NA flat 6 vs the Turbo'ed flat 4...
I'm pretty sure the 4 will be more thirsty as boost does it's thing. No avoiding that.
But when grannying around in it, i'm equally sure it will drink less then the 6'er

I would love on off lease three year old Cayman with the turbo engine. I know that Cobb and others are looking at tuning these. It wouldn't be unreasonable to get a 350 foot pound version with some suspension and brake upgrades that would smoke a GT4

I saw the numbers in the latest pano.

Surprisingly low. Like averaging around 175 units per month sold in the entire US.

Does that mean Porsche is headed the way of BMW? Lots of SUVs and sedans offered but just a token sports car like the Z4? Or, with Porsche, 10 different variants of a Z4.

I want a new Cayman GT4, or an S. Those are just, bad ass.

rjp

OK, so I looked up the EPA numbers for the Boxster S PDK (they didn't have the 2017 Cayman yet and the PDK gets better mpg than the manual)

Compare Side-by-Side

2016 Boxster S PDK = 21 city, 29 highway, 24 combined
2017 Boxster S PDK = 21 city, 28 highway, 24 combined

So even in the EPA tests (which are actually more realistic than they used to be) the new car doesn't get any better fuel economy.

I've read the same. If you stay out of the boost a turbo 4 should get better MPG. If you live in the boost it could be worse. It's a sports car, I know where I drive my RX-7.:)

For the last reported month in Pano (October 2016), porsche US sales were roughly:

50% Macans
25% Cayennes
25% All other models combined

So yea, by volume they are 75% an SUV maker.

Of course, there are a million 911s, Boxsters and Caymans already on the road. If you want one of those, you've probably already got one. Cayenne, yeah, those have been around a while. Macans are fairly new, so folks are grabbing those until the market is saturated with them, then I suspect the numbers will even out a bit.