Pretty sure I'm screwed... trying to get a rezone in SoCal

[scottmandue]

As I said in the title, pretty sure we are dead in the water so this is pretty much venting.
The house(s) I own now was once my brothers over thirty years ago.
He road the real estate wave and built enough $$ to buy a nice little beach house near the ocean rated for multiple units.
His plan was to build four condos, sell for one mil each and get rich.
Enter the neighborhood planing council (Not a HOA) and they are paranoid about parking/traffic problems so lobby the building department to down zone a bunch of properties.
My brothers was one of them.
As you might imagine he was livid... and decided to build (with a permit) a garage and storage unit over it on the back of the lot. The upstairs 'storage unit' was plumbed for bathrooms and kitchen and got permitted as a 'storage unit'.
Brother got sick of fighting with the building department (trying to rezone to a double unit) and eventually sold the property to my dad.
Dad rented the front house and used the back unit for storage and as a hobby area (no drywall, no bathroom, no kitchen)
After about ten years dad got tired of putting up with troublesome renters in the front house and fighting with the building department for a rezone so sold the place to me.
A few more years pass I decide why the heck am I not living in the back house with it's beautiful view of the oceans?
So install drywall, bathroom, kitchen.
Now we would like to start the year off new with a refinance... and you guessed it... the bank is saying "property is not zoned correctly can't give you a loan."
Even if we could get a rezone chances are we would have to get permits and inspections... and the inspectors could ask us to rip all the walls out... which would negate any advantage of getting a refinance.

Sorry, just need to vent... my wife pushed to try to do this but I knew we would get shot down (my family has been trying to fix this for over thirty years and my dad and brother were very strong willed. intelligent, and resourceful men, if they couldn't get it done it most likely couldn't be done)

Happy new year!

[creaturecat]

beach house in California?
i should be so unlucky. : )

[legion]

Don't you love it that they have given themselves the right to tell you want you can and can't do with your property?

[SoCal911T]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Even if we could get a rezone chances are we would have to get permits and inspections... and the inspectors could ask us to rip all the walls out

And even if things were done to code when originally installed, the building department would want everything to comply with 2016 code.
How is it currently zoned on the title, R1?

[rusnak]

This is all one parcel, right? So refi the main house. And besides, it sounds as if you have separate free standing structures. If you have multibple parcels already, then the issue is not zoning if the minimum lot size allows separate single family dwellings. Your issue can be minimum lot setbacks, which can be solved with a variance.

The bigger problem sounds as if the building codes are not met for a dwelling unit. Maybe refi the "storage" instead. This would be like a local bank mini perm collateralized by the lot(s). Maybe you need to find a different bank.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by SoCal911T

And even if things were done to code when originally installed, the building department would want everything to comply with 2016 code.
How is it currently zoned on the title, R1?

I haven't looked at the title in a few years but yes, I believe it is currently at R1.

My family was in construction for decades... my brother used reputable contractors for foundation/plumbing/electrical. My dad and I did all the finish work decades later.

When my dad owned the property after the 'storage unit' was built after taking several runs at the building department they finally told him "just go ahead and finish the unit... everyone in SoCal does it."

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by rusnak

This is all one parcel, right? So refi the main house. And besides, it sounds as if you have separate free standing structures. If you have multiple parcels already, then the issue is not zoning if the minimum lot size allows separate single family dwellings. Your issue can be minimum lot setbacks, which can be solved with a variance.

This is how the first loan (when I bought it from dad) was done... only appraised the front house... but the bank is currently not interested in doing that (neighbors house just sold for $600K, we are asking for $280 on the refi)

Originally Posted by rusnak

The bigger problem sounds as if the building codes are not met for a dwelling unit. Maybe refi the "storage" instead. This would be like a local bank mini perm collateralize by the lot(s). Maybe you need to find a different bank.

Yes we are shopping around banks... problem is they charge a processing fee and only tell you after the fact that they don't like the zoning issue... and this is the bank that gave me the last refi but as I expected with a different loan officer and appraisers some are more flexible than others..

[rusnak]

I think if you are R1, then keep R1. Look into a variance. Coastal Commission would be your big problem if you want a rezone, which would trigger a plan amendment and public hearing. You don't want that.

I would try to find a copy of the lot size codes. A city plannner or good consulting civil engineer can help you.

Many cities are moving to smaller lots in order to increase density and make city services more efficient. 2017 building codes are awful.

[rusnak]

Maybe look into a lot split or parcel map. Of course, that would take a good sized chunk out of that $280. But if it appraises for say $500K, then you're golden. Again, issue is minimum R1 lot size.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by SoCal911T

And even if things were done to code when originally installed, the building department would want everything to comply with 2016 code.
How is it currently zoned on the title, R1?

You would only need to stick to the new code for new work, such as remodel. If he had a permit when the work was done, then he's ok. But if not, or there was work done without a permit, then he's screwed in so far as he will have to redo that work under the new code.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I think if you are R1, then keep R1. Look into a variance. Coastal Commission would be your big problem if you want a rezone, which would trigger a plan amendment and public hearing. You don't want that.

Yes, I believe it was the 'public hearing' that kept killing the rezone for my brother and dad... back then a lot of old timers that wanted to 'keep San Pedro a small town' and were very active in attending hearings.

Thanks for your help

[DanielDudley]

You talk to everyone involved, and then you see if you can get a variance.

Or you just quit while you are ahead. FWIW, you refinance it for what it is actually zoned for, with the buildings appraised for whatever they were permitted for.
There may only be one town hall, but there are a boatload of banks that would like to give you a loan, and you only need one to pull it off.

Seriously. You think you have a zoning problem when all you need to do is solve some banking semantics. You can do this.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by rusnak

A city planner or good consulting civil engineer can help you.

I'm not certain how to find one of those but I have friends that are realtors and I will ask them. Appears like a variance is the only way to go.

Thanks again everyone for the help.

[ckissick]

Up here in the Bay Area, because of a housing shortage and the resulting high prices, many planning departments are becoming more amenable to the argument that second dwelling units are needed to create lower cost housing. You could try that argument and ask for a variance.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

...
There may only be one town hall, but there are a boatload of banks that would like to give you a loan, and you only need one to pull it off....

First house the wife and I bought. Pretty much a new build. Old 40's cottage that was taken down to the foundation, foundation enlarged and a new two story cape built in place.

Existing detached garage was extended out the back.

Builder was also the owner, he was in construction and built it for he and his wife. His father lived a few blocks away and there was bad blood with the wife so they decided to sell and move.

10 years go by and we sell.

My attorney comes by, looks at the house and tells me to go check the permits to make sure the house has the proper CO's.

Coincidently she was at the closing when we bought, working for our lender.

I said JerryAnn, nothing gets by you, if the CO's were not proper you would not have let the bank close.

She replies, I remember but that bank did not care about permits, I was not paid to check so I can tell you I didn't.

Welp, you know how this ends up.

Town permitted a single story with full height attic.

PO / builder went in after final inspection / sign off and banged in the upstairs bedrooms and bathrooms figuring he'd halve the property tax bill.

Cost me a few grand and a year to get the house up to current code and properly permitted.

Nearly had to knock down the entire garage because the set backs changed and the extension made the whole thing fall under current regs.

Frikken nightmare.

[SoCal911T]

If you can tell me what street the property is on, I can tell what the zoning is. I don't need the exact address just the street. I work for a public agency and have access to the database.
I assume that San Pedro is like most Southern California beach communities and the zoning is crazy confusing and varies block to block.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

You talk to everyone involved, and then you see if you can get a variance.

Or you just quit while you are ahead. FWIW, you refinance it for what it is actually zoned for, with the buildings appraised for whatever they were permitted for.
There may only be one town hall, but there are a boatload of banks that would like to give you a loan, and you only need one to pull it off.

Seriously. You think you have a zoning problem when all you need to do is solve some banking semantics. You can do this.

Thanks Daniel!

Originally Posted by SoCal911T

If you can tell me what street the property is on, I can tell what the zoning is. I don't need the exact address just the street. I work for a public agency and have access to the database.
I assume that San Pedro is like most Southern California beach communities and the zoning is crazy confusing and varies block to block.

PM sent

Originally Posted by ckissick

Up here in the Bay Area, because of a housing shortage and the resulting high prices, many planning departments are becoming more amenable to the argument that second dwelling units are needed to create lower cost housing. You could try that argument and ask for a variance.

Unfortunately, in Los Angeles amenable and building department are generally not words uttered in the same sentence .

[nota]

zoning is the money maker for the local political system
if you want to gain you got to give
and the more you gain the more they expect you to give

we have the best system money can buy

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by nota

zoning is the money maker for the local political system
if you want to gain you got to give
and the more you gain the more they expect you to give

we have the best system money can buy

Yep and unfortunately the whole idea of trying to do a refi was to SAVE money and now it just looks like they want more and more and more...

[flyenby]

Just sold a R-4 property , I built it. Put in a extra unit, had to eliminate it so buyers could get financing. I know of no banks that lend on non-conforming property. The only exception I know of is a granny flat, but sounds like that doesn't work for you.