Dogs are entirely predictable, far more so than humans. They have a very definite sense of order in their world and have problems with us when we do not act like a dog would in a given situation and this confuses them. The problem you have is that you don't understand how they think and act, you can't read their body language and understand the clues they give you as to their mood, therefore you cannot predict what they will do next.

Read a book about how dogs think. It might teach you a few things.

JR

so it's no longer PC to profile dogs?

where are the videos of vicious bred to kill labs and poodles maiming owners? Seems common sense tells us some breeds are more dangerous and prone to violence than others. I personally don't appreciate people putting my children at risk by bringing dangerous breeds into potential contact with them. honestly the thought that goes through my head when I see someone walking a dangerous breed is 'selfish *******'.

there is a breed of dog owner that seems to be completely oblivious to aggressive behavior by their dog. those people are a PITA.

Humans have not been selectively bred for the past bazillion generations to to fight and kill.
Humans have not developed physical attributes to make them better at killing, such as stronger bite, massive jaws, and a deep-seated tendency to attack violently when provoked.

Sure, a toy poodle is almost as likely to bite a human as a pit bull is but a toy poodle typically gives a little nip and is lucky to break the skin.

A pit bull attack is likely to result in serious blood loss, missing skin and tissue, faces ripped off, and kids or grown-ups being DEAD.

To ignore these facts or to argue against them is just dishonest.
SHAME.

I'm not politically correct, so my arguments are less to do with that and more to do with the fact that people that know nothing much about a subject ought to not have such strong opinions about it. Of course, that's the opposite of current trends in this country.

Humans may not have been bred specifically to kill each other but they sure do a damn fine job of it. Sammy is 160 times more likely to die from his neighbor killing him, than from his neighbor's dog, but why interject actual facts into the discussion? Horse**** is so much more fun.

Enjoy your opinions, boys. Don't own a dog, I'm quite fine with that.

JR

Sure. But if you insist on carrying on your phantasy, think about this for just a minute. For argument's sake let's assume a child is not as dog savvy as you claim to be. Let's further say that child happens to grab some dog by the ear or poke him in the eye or step on his foot. I'd rather that dog be a Lab or just about ANY other breed than a Pitt.

No argument. But a dog owner shouldn't put a large dog next to a small kid. That's where the problem starts.

JR

This thread has some similar arguments in it as threads about what is a good first car for a 16 year old. You can give a 16 year old a corolla or civic or mustang or WRX STI. Some arguments are, "tThey can go 100mph in any of the vehicles, so what difference does it make?" I don't think that argument is any more valid. Yes, any dog may be "mean" by disposition/character (dogs have personalities much as people do. Any dog may be mean/violent/dangerous by nature or nurture. But, if you get in a situation where the dog becomes violent and dangerous, I'd rather have it be a teacup chihuahua or my mini dachshund than a pit bull, rottweiler, German Shepherd, etc... (and I love German Shepherds).

And some dogs will just be dangerous regardless of the owner or how they were raised. They may be well trained and socialized 99.999% of the time, but it only takes that one time....

come on folk..
we give murderer's , rapist and the like more than one chance..
supposedly they can think like we do and make decisions..
nobody rushing to put them down..

I've owned & own big dogs..
I never assume anything..
do my best and more..
but more often then not..
it's stupid humans / actions that start the event..

Rika

Of course they have. Who do you think gets to breed?
The winners or the losers of wars?

If that's not selective, I don't know what is.

Just another couple data points, against pitbulls.

Christmas day 2016. Family comes over to my house, nephew brings his pit/rottweiler mix rescue. Within minutes of arriving the dog has attacked and bitten my yellow lab on the face, requiring a trip to the vet for staples. My yellow lab would not hurt a fly, and does not even bark because she scares herself. The pit was out for blood, and was within inches of killing her, just missed her throat.

August 2016. I'm in my backyard, and hear a dog yelping and lady screaming out front. I run out there and find a pitbull attacking a golden retriever who was being walked by her owner. The lady was on the ground, having been knocked down by the pit bull and her own dogs leash, and the pit bull was in the process of trying to get to her dogs throat. I tried yelling, but there was no stopping that dog short of violence, so I proceeded to kick it in the gut as hard as I could.. six times.. before it let go of the golden. Turned out the pit was a neighbors dog, and had broken through their fence to get at this lady and her dog.

Pitbulls seem to have the capacity to "snap" and resort to primal kill mode more than most/any other breed. No amount of training seems to completely remove this capacity.

Defenders of Pit Bulls and other potentially dangerous breeds:
I've got two words for you : Diane Whipple (google it)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483470098.jpg

Diane was my neighbor for a few years. A beautiful young woman,
she was a two-time All-American lacrosse player in high school,
and later at Penn State. She was twice a member of the U.S. Women's
Lacrosse World Cup team.

Diane was savagely mauled to death by her neighbors two Presa Canario dogs.
Bane, the larger of the dogs (weighed 140 pounds) attacked the 33-year-old
lacrosse coach outside of her doorway on Jan. 26, 2001.

The owner, Marjorie Knoller, got the dogs from a Pelican Bay State Prison inmate
named Paul "Cornfed" Schneider, whom they had represented and legally adopted
as their son. The case revealed bizarre detailsabout Knoller and her husband,
who adopted "Cornfed", an Aryan Brotherhood white supremacist convict
they claimed owned the two Presa Canario dogs in theirhome. The dogs were featured
in pornographic prison photos that involved Ms. Knoller, found in the convict's cell.
The case rumbled through the Californiacourt system, slowed by appeals and reversals.

Again....this was something that resulted from HUMANS doing STUPID stuff.....

How many dog owners on this forum chain up their dogs in a remote corner of your property. How many dog owners on this forum attempt to start a dog fighting business?

I didn't think so.

Exterminate the STUPID humans....not the dogs. Problem solved!

Personally, I don't care for sweaters either. On the other hand, my two dogs will put up with any amount of humiliation. Tilly and Axel on Halloween:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483473619.jpg

If I could offer a little advice... never let someone bring a dog to visit at your house. Apart from the fact that there is no good reason to do so, from either dog's point of view, there are two really good reasons to not do so.

The first one, you've seen firsthand.

The second one is that if the other dog has any health issues, that's a really good way to pass them onto your dog. From simple things like fleas, to more serious things like worms, you don't know how healthy the other dog is and people that bring their dogs everywhere they go are also more likely to take them to places like dog parks, which are really good places to make a healthy dog sick. Dogs that receive normal healthcare and stay in their own yard are usually healthy from birth to death.

The better kennels won't even accept dogs without an up-to-date vaccination/testing record, a thorough physical inspection and bath.

JR

Both. I don't know the statistics, but I doubt there are significantly fewer Japanese now than there were in 1939. Ditto for the Germans.

I lived in SF at the time and remember that story well:
Nice area, nice apartments.
It should have been an all nice people and all nice situation.

Then somehow there is some gutter humans and several large Cane Corso residents involved.
Add a litany of previous incidents of those dogs loose in the hallways with past aggressive incidents.
California the control state.

The whole thing didn't make sense.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483481967.jpg

A cane corso isn't a pitbull.
They are molossors - guard dogs.
If you are going to blame specific breeds at least get the right ones.

Google genghis khan dna. Then think about the ramifications of that for a bit before you try a smart answer.

We have had plenty of dogs over to the house without incident, other family members, neighbors etc., and everyone gets along just fine, dogs included ;). Having a dog should not mean solitary confinement for the dog or the family.

However, my experience with pitbulls leads me to acknowledge that there is something wrong with the breed. I don't blame the animals, but I do blame genetics.

I was living near the SF beach at the time.
Across the street was a beehive apartment full of misc surfer dudes/dudettes.

Helped one tough guy find the bad spark plug on a pickup.
He busted his knuckles to the bone on the fan blade, and then arced a continuous spark from his blue jeans to the bumper.
'Tis merely a flesh wound he said. Wrap with duct tape.
Got it fixed.

They'd leave the big pit bull and rottweiler out on the sidewalk to lounge on the sidewalk.
Nice dogs. Liked a petting. Ignored traffic. Liked sunshine. A bit lazy also. Had to be yelled at to go back inside.


..The dog mentality is heavily influenced by the human mentality...

Tell me first how the losers of WWII were prevented from breeding.

i just came back from a walk. Britannia Park.
signs everywhere saying "all dogs must be on a leash" the sign as well notes that there is a dedicated large fenced area for off leash dog fun. it is a huge grassy area. fenced in.
the sign in front of the children's playground says "no dogs allowed".
the sign in front of the beach says "no dogs allowed".
probably 10-12 dogs in the park, all together. it's a slow day, due to icy conditions.
only one dog was on leash. dogs were in the playground, off leash, and on the beach, off leash.
not one dog in the designated area.

Ask the Jews.
Your turn.

Edit: or the Chinese in Nanjing in 37.

Bingo!

A post from FB today...

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b9&oe=591B73DB

Baz, you are a dog lover- and I'm guessing animal lover, which is something to be proud of. Me too.

Can you honestly continue to defend the actions of Pit Bulls? If so, why?
The news reported in my country was that the family concerned only had the animal for 3 months.
You also said this>> Exterminate the STUPID humans....not the dogs. Problem solved!

Which sounds like you'd rather exterminate people and forgive violent dog breeds. Not trying to be antagonistic here, but that is how it reads.

Do you honestly think this is what he is doing? If so, why?

The jews were given their own country and are thriving.

I'm with Baz - exterminate stupid and cruel humans, they know better and choose to be the way they are.
I was a lover of MY dogs exclusively for a long time. I was actually afraid of strange dogs, especially Pit Bulls, until my daughter in law got involved in Pit Bull rescue. Her rescue group ended up being the only emergency rescue in our area for abused dogs of all breeds. From my 5 year experience with the Pit Crew, I estimate Pit Bulls are abused and neglected at least three times as often as other breeds. In five years I've probably been exposed to 30 abused Pit Bulls. I've seen abuse of Pit Bulls that literally bring me to tears - like the female who had lighter fluid or kerosene thrown on her face and set on fire. Or the one that was thrown into a container of some caustic chemical - several that were chained outside in all weather and starved. With love, training, and proper care every one of these dogs learned to trust humans and have become model citizens. I am convinced it is not the dog - there is no "violent dog breed" - there are dog breeds that are powerful and people who push them beyond their limits of tolerance.

Continuation of stupid dog owners...
 

A recent news report states that a man went into Timmy Hortons at Whitecourt Alberta for coffee and left his two dogs outside loose. One dog sees something in the bush and goes after it. It is a cougar. The owner comes out and finds a cougar with his dog in its jaws. The owner goes over and punches the cougar in the nose and the dog is released.

In the meantime the dog owner is being hailed as a hero. The RCMP search out the offending cougar and kill it.The dog owner should have been charged with having two dogs off leash and the cougar ends up losing its life because of a dog owner's negligence.

In the last couple of years I have had two dogs take a run at me(off leash) and they were not pit bulls. I am happy to say I filed a complaint with Bylaws division and both owners got charged. As Judge Judy says on tv if you are being attacked by a dog you have the right to defend yourself. :)

Funny, in all my years of running dogs in AKC field trials, I never once ran into anyone running Pit Bulls (nor many other breeds for that matter). On the flip side, we never hear of anyone running a Golden Retriever fighting ring.

Yes, "environment" plays a large role in any dog's behavior - we will never see an untrained, couch potato Lab win a field trial, nor will the same sort of lazy pet Pit Bull ever win a fight. We will, however, see a propensity to fetch, or an outright eagerness to fetch, in the Lab. It's been bred into them through generations of hard work by skilled breeders. Same with the Pit Bull - their propensity, even eagerness to display aggression has been similarly bred into them through equally hard work by equally skilled breeders. So, yes, environment has an affect, but only within the defined range established by any given breed's attributes as defined by their breeding. Anyone who denies the effectiveness of mankind's targeted, purpose breeding is a fool who immediately loses any credibility.

i love dogs.

i also dont read or see where the owners are idiots. what did they do to get labeled this? in the pics, they look like regular folks with a different sense of style than myself..i cant tell what they do for a living, how they voted, if they believe in a higher being.. all i know for sure is they think a pit bull should have a sweater..dont know what their reasoning is..a christmas sweater for a holiday pic? cuz the dog is cold?
was the dog raised to fight?

i adopted a dog. a terrier. feisty little effer. walking him, i heard a chain clanking behind me. a huge pitbull was running full sprint for us..across a street. i was hoping it got hit by a car before it got to me,,but no. i flipped opened my knife because that was all i had. it was "GO TIME" i was gonna try to defend my dog. my tiny dog looked at the situation and obviously felt, "he got this!" and jumped in front of me..i see a teen running..screaming..dont kill my dog!..the pit ran up and started hopping around like a puppy and wagging his ass. it wanted to play. i trusted my instincts and got ready.. by BAZ law, i should have sliced the kids neck..if that dog attacked us.

i'm prejudiced..i've seen a pit kill a basset pup..they are unstoppable when in that zone. big pits scare me cuz of what i have stored in my mind's eye.

So to be clear: these prospective to-be exterminated humans must be both stupid and cruel.

I'm in, providing I'm the one who gets to define stupid and cruel.

_

We'll form a committee. Anything else would be stupid.

I guess it's a little ironic then, that my pitbull's favorite thing to do is fetch something. He'd rather do that than eat. Maybe he has a lab, somewhere in his woodpile. Or, maybe some dogs just like to fetch things.

I think you are overstating the genetic thing. I've owned a lot of boxers and there were no two alike. Some liked to fetch, some wouldn't fetch if you tossed them a ribeye steak. Some were diggers, some were not. Some were barkers, some were not. One liked to hang out on a raft in the pool, others wouldn't go near the pool. Point being, having a lot of experience with the breed, I'd be hard pressed to define any consistent characteristics in them that I'd say have any genetic coding. They all have individual personalities and I think the breeding/genetic thing is overblown. Some dogs are smarter than others, some have more energy than others; the challenge sometimes is to direct them in an appropriate direction.

A pitbull may be seen as dangerous or aggressive, but I can say that about dozens of breeds. Think a Shepard can't shred your leg in short order? Think a Doberman can't be a little high strung?

One thing I'm getting tired of in this country is the propensity for people with no actual, real experience with something thinking they know everything about it. That, and the notion that dogs are "just a pet" or a piece of property. They aren't yard ornaments, they aren't fashion accessories and they aren't something you "own."

JR

Oh please, java. Enough with the hysterics. Dogs are not people.

That is true Bob, neither are they "things"

Hysterics? Nah. Just happen to like dogs... and I'm not overly fond of idiots (does this include you?) blathering on about subjects they know little about.

Go back to PARF, where you belong.

JR

Go ahead, java.

I gotta hand it to you. Not many people on this board are able to stimulate in me a response to their cowardliness. Well done.

But go ahead, come out from behind your smug self-righteousness and instead of suggesting it, come flat out and call me an idiot. Meet me over in PARF and we can discuss the matter further to spare yourself the embarrassment here.

You first, go ahead.

Some dog breeds are predisposed to herding. Others are not.

Some dog breeds drool. Others do not.

Some dog breeds are generally and consistently very small, genetically incapable of being large. Others are generally and consistently large, genetically incapable of being very small.

Some dog breeds frequently have blue eyes. Others never do.

Some dog breeds ... well, I suspect the reasonable reader gets it by now.

_