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-   -   3rd Gen 4runner experts... walk me through this (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/941172-3rd-gen-4runner-experts-walk-me-through.html)

cnielsen 01-04-2017 08:15 AM
If you are in Canada, you can easily buy or import a gen 3 4Runner (Surf) that has the 4 cyl diesel. I have one in my '97 and I love it! Mileage and torque are both better. Most importantly, the fun factor is MUCH better!

Great trucks!

cnielsen 01-04-2017 08:16 AM
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483550171.JPG

speeder 01-04-2017 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldE (Post 9419103)
What's your thinking on this?
I can see at higher speeds a sudden throttle change may lead to over steer, but at the speeds one would use a locking rear diff, that wouldn't be an issue.
I drove an '87 4000 Quattro years ago and I must say the locking diffs (rear and centre) were greatly appreciated a few times. In fact the only time I locked the diffs was in snow. I never had the car in deep mud.

Best
Les
Yep. Locking rear diffs are not a negative factor in snow. They are either designed only to lock when spinning one wheel, (such as the GM/Chevy type), or are driver activated and can be switched on/off at will.

That Audi 4000 Quattro w 5-cyl and 5-speed manual was a truly great car. Just a sweet spot on automotive history. I sold them new in mid-'80s, I wouldn't mind having one now if I could find a good one.

speeder 01-04-2017 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oracle (Post 9419295)
If youre open to a Nissan, you need to look at the pathfinder. -

Mine is a 2001 with: 4x2,auto, 4-Hi and 4-low so no matter how much snow i have to deal with I never get stuck.

The best part is that the Pathfinder (In my opinion) is as good as that 4Runner but is like a 1/3 or 1/4 of the price.
The engine is that 3.5lts from Nissan that still in use with Infinity and Nissan new models so you know its reliable as it gets. This gen has a Towing capacity of 5,000lbs!! (that's more than any modern small&mid-sized SUV)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Pathfinder#Second_generation_R50_series_.28 1995.E2.80.932004.29

Note: do NOT buy the next gen up, so many issues..

Good luck!
I second this. I've owned both, (Toyota and Nissan), both are extremely tough and well engineered for their purpose. My dad actually owned each generation 4-runner from 1-4 and I've owned a few Toyota and Nissan trucks plus a Pathfinder. The second gen Pathfinder is fantastic, my choice would be a manual trans 4x4 from before 2001. In '01, they got the 3.5 V-6 which has great power but was thirsty and uses premium fuel. Basically the Maxima engine of the time. Might as well DD a Suburban, it would be cheaper, (87 octane). The '96-2000 is sweet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnielsen (Post 9419362)
If you are in Canada, you can easily buy or import a gen 3 4Runner (Surf) that has the 4 cyl diesel. I have one in my '97 and I love it! Mileage and torque are both better. Most importantly, the fun factor is MUCH better!

Great trucks!
We had a poster here who imported a gen 3 4-runner front clip w turbo diesel from Japan and converted his U.S. truck. Not enough benefit/cost for me but a fantastic rig.

notfarnow 01-04-2017 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnielsen (Post 9419362)
If you are in Canada, you can easily buy or import a gen 3 4Runner (Surf) that has the 4 cyl diesel. I have one in my '97 and I love it! Mileage and torque are both better. Most importantly, the fun factor is MUCH better!
I was considering this route a few months ago, but now I have no fixed address, no garage, and this is going to be my DD for about a year... I need something I can drop off at a shop and pick up the next day, like a grownup. Once I have a workspace again I could see getting a JDM half-cut and doing a swap. I'm already reading up on a 5speed manual swap, but I know I won't be able to do anything like that for a year.

I *did* manage to find a heated workspace for the 911 and my tools.

The Pathfinders were on my list, but I've always liked the look of the 3rd gen 4runners, and they are plentiful. Finding a nice one is pretty easy, I think I have one on the hook now

Captain Ahab Jr 01-04-2017 11:28 AM
No experience of 3rd gen but I've got a 1994 2nd gen 4Runner, manual box with 3ltr TD. 165k on the clock

It's my daily driver, 72 mile return trip and has safely and reasonably quickly taken my family and I across Europe many times.

Just returned this weekend from doing a 1000 miles in 2 days no problem

Chugs along quite happily at 75-80 mph all day, with snow tyres on in low ratio it will plow through 1.5ft of snow no problem.

It will be retired from daily duties but not for a rest but for major overland trips across Asia, Africa etc

Best car I've ever owned and will be the last car I own as its part of the family now.

berettafan 01-04-2017 11:52 AM
a locking diff in snow just takes you sideways. a true locking diff. they are for rock crawling and situations where one wheel is off the ground.

speeder 01-04-2017 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by berettafan (Post 9419696)
a locking diff in snow just takes you sideways. a true locking diff. they are for rock crawling and situations where one wheel is off the ground.
This is true, strictly speaking but a ltd.slip diff is great in snow. My F-250 has LSD on rear plus 4x4. :cool:

notfarnow 01-04-2017 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by berettafan (Post 9419696)
a locking diff in snow just takes you sideways. a true locking diff. they are for rock crawling and situations where one wheel is off the ground.
They are GREAT when you struggling up a steep snowy/icy driveway like the ones I am going to be navigating the next year. Obviously not so great for driving around town, at which point it would be unlocked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speeder (Post 9419725)
This is true, strictly speaking but a ltd.slip diff is great in snow. My F-250 has LSD on rear plus 4x4. :cool:
I find an LSD is dicey in the snow... inside wheel always wants to spin and you end up fishtailing around. Lots of fun, but not on a daily driver. That's why I like the selectable locked diffs when you *need* it, and then just AWD (or 2wd on dry roads) the rest of the time. Best of 3 worlds

cnielsen 01-04-2017 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeder (Post 9419439)
We had a poster here who imported a gen 3 4-runner front clip w turbo diesel from Japan and converted his U.S. truck. Not enough benefit/cost for me but a fantastic rig.
That's my truck...the one pictured above.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483568781.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483568781.JPG

Bill Verburg 01-04-2017 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notfarnow (Post 9417533)
So I've had my apple carts upturned in the past month, and it looks like a fleet adjustment will be required to accomodate the changes. I am going to be staying at my mother's home for the winter while she's in China, and her home is on a particularly tough hill. Also, I'm buying a cottage next week, and I'd like to be able to drive in and out of its 2000ft driveway year round.

So, the fwd v70 is going to be retired, and I'm looking at 3rd gen (96-2001) Toyota 4runners. Initially, I was looking for a base model with the 22re and a 5 speed, but the more I've read, the more I'm leaning towards the '99-'00 4runner Limited, because:
- Leather interior is more washable/kid friendly
- "Multi-Mode" transfer case has a lockable center diff, so you can run it unlocked (awd) or locked (4x4). (only available 99-2002)
- electric actuated locking rear diff (only available until 2000)

The downside to the Limited is that they were only available as automatics, and I really prefer a manual transmission. Having said that, the selectable center diff in the transfer case makse quite a difference when you drive in a climate like ours, especially where this will become my primary driver for a year or two. A straight 4x4 is a handful in the snow when it's a commuter vehicle, especially on the highway.... being able to toggle between awd/4x4 might trump gettibg a manual transmission

What say ye?
having lived w/ all the various AWD & 4WD systems that I know of
best was The Audi computer controlled system in my V8 Quattro
next would be the Toyota Torsen system in my gen 4, 4 Runner,
next was the old locking hubs strictly manual setup in an old Jeep w/ lsd in back

lsd is a 2 edged sword most of the time you do not want it,

the gen 4 AWd system in my truck has a Torsen diff in the transfer case, you have a choice of
4H w/ VSC off, this is normally what is used the Torsen directs power f/r as needed, or
4H w/ VSC on which locks the center differential
4L w/ VSC off ie the torsen is deciding where to send torque
4L w/ VSC on again this locks the center diff.

In addition the E-LSd can be turned on or off as desired, normally leave it off but turn it on if in a ditch or for extra low speed traction

there are some models of these w/ different operations like the more traditional H2, H4 unlocked, H4 locked L4 unlocked and L4 locked

I had a gen 3, 6 cyl 5 spd manual before this one, the gen 4 variable cam motors alone make them a much better choice.

good tires make as much a difference as the AWD setup

1990C4S 01-04-2017 01:48 PM
Sounds like a job for an AWD 964....

oldE 01-04-2017 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990C4S (Post 9419842)
Sounds like a job for an AWD 964....
That was just mean.

Best
Les

1990C4S 01-04-2017 02:30 PM
Fixed the colour.

I was only half joking. It's a great winter car, with locking diff as I recall.

Maybe not practical to sell the 911 if it is 'in pieces'.

notfarnow 01-04-2017 06:41 PM
Ha, the 964 was a lot of fun to drive as a winter beater when it was used Subaru money. Once the value got carried away it became the downpayment on a house (that burned down) .

I think I'm about a year or so away from a 996 C4S, starting to see them pretty regularly in the 25-30k CAN$ range... again, Subaru money.

But for now, I need to streamline the fleet to combine the v70 and a 4x4 truck... the 4Runner Limited seems like the right balance

I agree with those who are saying the Gen4 trucks are better, but I'm seeing enthusiast owned & maintained Gen3's for 4-8k CAN$, whereas the 7-8k Gen4's seem to be the ones that are beat to piss. I'm closing the deal on a cottage tomorrow and it was a SQUEAKER. I'm starting a 14x30 addition as soon as the ground is thawed out, so I'm keeping the vehicle budget pretty low.

Pazuzu 01-04-2017 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeder (Post 9417956)
That would be a 2nd generation, not 3rd. Pretty worthless if it's a V-6, unfortunately. One of Toyota's rare *swing and miss* vehicles. The 3rd gen fixed everything, especially the drivetrain, and was a great rig. The trick at this point would be finding one with lots of young miles still left on it.
That's the kinda crap that people parrot back over and over who have never owned the 3.0L V6, or the automatic behind it. Trust me, I've had 3 early Toyotas, and the 3.0L auto 4Runner I had would walk all over the 22RE manual pickup I had. I beat the ever living crap out of that truck and engine, it was on it's lid in the middle of nowhere 4 or 5 times, and it always drove me the 300-400 miles home from a wheeling weekend. There's a reason that all of the 1985-1995 4Runners command a premium over the 1985-1995 pickups, while the 1995+ pickups command a premium over the 4Runners.

As for the discussion of locker and snow...
I had a full mechanical locker front and rear, with front manual disconnects. Driving down a very icy in 4WD, very steep road, tranny ends up in 2nd gear, speeds about 10mph. I manually dropped the auto tranny to "1" from "2", engine spins up, driveshaft spins up, axles spin up...tires break loose and I instantly do a 360 into the mountain wall, all at 10mph. The downshift at that speed was enough for the locker to lock, and that that point all tires instantly broke free and the truck pivoted. I would NOT run solid lockers with snow. Selectable locker, LSD or open differentials only.

DonDavis 01-05-2017 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnielsen (Post 9419826)
That's my truck...the one pictured above.
Please tell me more of this engine swap? Is there a thread about it?

speeder 01-05-2017 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pazuzu (Post 9420396)
That's the kinda crap that people parrot back over and over who have never owned the 3.0L V6, or the automatic behind it. Trust me, I've had 3 early Toyotas, and the 3.0L auto 4Runner I had would walk all over the 22RE manual pickup I had. I beat the ever living crap out of that truck and engine, it was on it's lid in the middle of nowhere 4 or 5 times, and it always drove me the 300-400 miles home from a wheeling weekend. There's a reason that all of the 1985-1995 4Runners command a premium over the 1985-1995 pickups, while the 1995+ pickups command a premium over the 4Runners.

As for the discussion of locker and snow...
I had a full mechanical locker front and rear, with front manual disconnects. Driving down a very icy in 4WD, very steep road, tranny ends up in 2nd gear, speeds about 10mph. I manually dropped the auto tranny to "1" from "2", engine spins up, driveshaft spins up, axles spin up...tires break loose and I instantly do a 360 into the mountain wall, all at 10mph. The downshift at that speed was enough for the locker to lock, and that that point all tires instantly broke free and the truck pivoted. I would NOT run solid lockers with snow. Selectable locker, LSD or open differentials only.
Mike, we owned a gen2 3.0 V-6 auto 4x4 from new, as well as all the others. I never said that that truck itself was poorly made but the power and economy sucked. If you think it was good, you are in a very small minority of fans of these vehicles. :cool:

creaturecat 01-05-2017 08:16 AM
the ones around here seem to have a bit of a rust problem.
is that a common thing?

Oracle 01-05-2017 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by creaturecat (Post 9420851)
the ones around here seem to have a bit of a rust problem.
is that a common thing?
In my opinion, all Japs vehicles rust faster than american cars..

But back to the point..
A 4runner diesel eh?? Not a bad idea..
I wonder where can you look (websites) for such animal?


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