Local Sheriff says going over the speed limit is not speeding
 

I want some thoughts on this. Maybe there are some Sheriff deputies here.

I've lived on the same street for almost 30 years. Speeding has IMO always been an issue. The street is listed on the city "local" streets list so a survey is not required to use radar as I understand it. The posted limit is 25. There are about 900 cars per day on the street including both directions. There is a high school and a grammar school very nearby, so there are a lot of pedestrians. I've been to the local traffic safety committee meetings a few times and speed enforcement was increased on my street.

Now that I'm home more I see many cars going over 25 but probably not too many going over 40. A traffic survey done years ago showed a significant number over 40 and a few in the 50s. I think the 85% point was 32mph. One thing I don't like is the noise generated by the higher speed vehicles and it is rude. There is also the safety issue.

I was talking to one deputy stopped on my street and ask why I hadn't seen any speed enforcement on my street in the last few years. He said that it could be a survey is more than 5 years old they can't use radar. OK - fine. Then today I find on my city website that my street is listed as a "local" street. This apparent conflict prompted me to go talk to the Sargent that oversees the traffic units.

The Sargent said going over the speed limit is not speeding - speeding is defined as the speed that traffic and conditions allow. He would like me to indicate times I think have the most speeders and they will post a unit from time to time to see if they can catch anyone. If they don't catch enough they won't go back. He says the usual ticket limit is 40mph. It could be lower if pedestrians are on the road or some other factor. He also said he has higher priority and busier streets to patrol.

What is going on here - going over the speed limit is not speeding? I feel like the Sargent is making the situation my problem by requiring input on times when there are the most speeders. At some point people will determine they can go 39 and not get a ticket - right? If the street has no enforcement for long enough I feel like the average traffic speed will increase.

What do you all think about this? Am I being too much of a whiner? I guess I need to go to the traffic safety committee meeting again and get them to raise the priority of traffic enforcement on my street.

I've heard several times that in Cali, you can get away with going over the posted limit if the speed that you're going is reasonable for conditions. But I have no idea about the truth or facts about that.

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Look out for those Porsche drivers. Them's the worst :D




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You're wasting your time....sorry, but that's reality. Ain't a snowball's chance you're gonna have an impact....well, you might get them to raise the priority, but it will have ZERO net effect on the traffic flow down your street imo.

You need to find another pass-time. Chase kids off your lawn or something. Life is good.

The cops are posted on the main street going out of our neighborhood at least one a week.

There can't be that many speeders?

You can get away with it, or they could write you a ticket every single time they catch you.

The posted speed limit is just that, the officer mentioned above is FOS. You are wasting your time even talking to them. Complain to your state assembly rep or your city council person, do it in writing.

Lots of law enforcement in my family. Step dad was a state trooper for 35 years... that was his opinion. Easy to get a ticket for going too fast for conditions... I've gotten one and definitely wasn't going over the speed limit.

Start hanging out curbside, with a "sign", and rant & cuss like a curmudgeon....folks will slow down imo.

Temporarily anyways :)

Cops I've known (a few) won't bother with anyone not going at least 15 over.....unless they want too :)

Posted school zones being an exception...

We live in a time of "Alternative facts". Speeding doesn't mean your going faster than the posted speed limit. Illegal immigrants are undocumented guests. If you're an outie, you can still use the women's restroom and innie can use the men's room.

My understanding is that Colorado has a similar interpretation on "speeding"
My understanding is that the "Speed Limit", in Colorado, is a judgement call by law enforcement of a "Safe and Prudent" speed.
But funny enough, if law enforcement think you are not going a "Safe and Prudent" speed they base your offense/fine off the posted speed limit, not the delta of your speed and the "Safe and Prudent" speed.

Seems there are two things that can happen to get them to adjust the interpretation of "Safe and Prudent"

1) somebody gets killed/seriously injured.
2) a city official (police caption, councilperson, judge, etc) moves into you neighborhood.

Sergeant......Squeaky wheel gets the grease......Go over his head to his Lt, then Capt, etc....You might get a few extra patrols, but not long term. I feel your pain. My road gets busy on summer weekends when the freeway is stopped. Good luck.

They want people to be comfortable going over the limit, so when they do show up they get a good return on their time spent.

A strategy that I think is worth trying is to present an argument - and one that is PUBLISHED routinely - that in your opinion there is inadequate enforcement of speeders and ONE DAY SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET INJURED......AND THE CITY WILL BE LIABLE.

I used caps there to emphasize....you are calling attention to the fact that there is a SAFETY issue NOT being addressed by local safety officials (including the city itself).

Put that in the local fish wrapper and keep sending in letters until action is taken.

At some point, your letter to the editor may get the attention by someone in power - and in particular your BOLD statement that the city might be held culpable. Putting it out there where everyone can see and "on record" that there is a safety issue - that might get some results.

Do something in your garage with door open and every time a fast car comes by run out, wave your arms and point at them yelling "Hey! Slow it down."

Buy some cheap cars and park them on both sides of the street in front of your house to make the street more congested. Be sure to move them around though so you don't get ticketed for derelict cars.

If the street is asphalt, get a pick axe and start some pot holes they have to slow down to avoid.

As others have said, you're wasting your time talking with the local LEO. Write a letter to your mayor ore representative and send a copy to the newspaper and TV station. Use the "before someone gets hurt and the city gets sued..." angle. See if you can get your neighbors to sign something with you to make it less of a "one old grumpy man" issue.
Lastly, make sure your lawn is always mowed, you don't display any out of code flags, you don't do any work on your car in the driveway, and that you drive below the speed limit at all times because the LEOs will be looking for the troublemaker who caused them extra work.

Genius! (especially that last one, I recommend doing that midday as well)

Most folks that I know who complained about lack of police patrolling in their hood ended up being the ones who get a ticket (or two). Karma, I guess.

Is the speed limit sign in question yellow or white?

If yellow that's known as an advisory speed limit.

Exceeding it is not a violation unless conditions make the exceeded speed unreasonable.

Basically it's discretionary for both drivers and law enforcement.

It was more comment on speed and conditions. On many occasions I saw my step father turn on his lights just to get someones attention and didn't pull them over. One time in the early 90s riding along when he had one of those Mustang 5.0 patrol cars :)

What you might be seeing is a white whale: A situation where the city does not want to make tons of extra money.
They may be trying to keep the entire place positive and a friendly place to live or travel to.
Better in the long run.
Catch more flies with honey.
Keep fish swimming in. etc all that proverbage story telling

A lone person isn't going to make a difference.
Schools and parents will.

It sounds like the road 'feels like' higher speeds are normal (if all the blind driveways are ignored).
...People can get carried away without a reminder...
...Lost in thought. Already late. Need to get there. Forgetting what is ahead...

Maybe a flashing portable speed station for a few weeks/more might be a gentle way of bringing it all back down to more reasonable levels?
City or county can rent these things if they don't own them.

Maybe another sign before your zone?

Even a single cop, just sitting there prominently, once a month during rush hour, will do wonders with the averages.

Back in the 80s, I had a Supra Turbo (I used a radar detector back then) and it went off on a stretch of Interstate that suddenly dropped back to 55. I knew I was nabbed...5.0 Mustang coming the opposite direction...I slowed way down as he crossed over and chased me down...took him a mile or so. Younger cop said he clocked me at 71 in a 55....he was still giddy from the chase down...nice guy. As he handed me the ticket, he sorta was sorry....said if his sergeant wasn't with him, he'd have given me a "pass" :).

You win some, you lose some...

Thanks for the comments.
I might see if others on the street would be in favor of installing speed humps. A number of other streets in the city have them. It is pretty clear the Sheriff is not going to do too much.

How big is your town? How many sheriffs do they employ?
People in my hood are always asking for more patrols (to deter petty theft) but we live in a big city and there are only so many LEO's to go around.
So they quip "just hire more cops", yeah, so who is going to pay for the new cops? And it is not just adding a paycheck, there is training, uniforms, cars, insurance, etc.

City is 30k people. 1 or 1.5 traffic units are paid for by the city. I think this means e.g. 1 unit for one shift per day. This will probably not increase no matter what the citizens say.

Arrrgh, I HATE speed bumps. Unnecessary roughness.

Obviously the sheriff's deputy is wrong. He's mixing up several concepts and conflating them. The speed limit is just that: the maximum limit that is allowed by law regardless of the conditions. It doesn't matter if it's a straight road, high noon, no one is around and there are sawhorses blocking the cross streets at every intersection. The speed limit is the maximum speed allowed by law under any circumstances.

The speed limit also incorporates a restriction that you do not travel faster than what is reasonable and prudent for the conditions at that time. But this is a restriction in addition to the maximum speed limit allowed, not an alternative speed limit. In other words, if the roadway has ideal conditions, the speed limit is the maximum speed, period. If the roadway has less than ideal conditions, the speed limit is whatever is reasonable and prudent for those conditions - not to exceed the posted speed limit. So you can get a speeding ticket for driving too fast for conditions even if you're under the posted speed limit, but you can't increase the maximum speed limit through good conditions.

The final issue is enforcement. If the city has a policy not to stop speeders in areas where the flow of traffic is routinely above the speed limit, they can adopt that enforcement policy. But it doesn't mean the drivers aren't speeding. It just means the city isn't going to charge them with it.

So, the cop was wrong, but the practical effect of what he said gets the same result as if he was right.

That's not true in California.

California does have a "basic speed law" that says "No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property."

That's what he's talking about.

But all that means is you might have to drive SLOWER than the posted speed limit.

There's nothing in California law that allows you to ever drive FASTER than a posted speed limit, or other unposted, prima facie limits (25 mph in a residential, etc.)

See, that's like total nonsense , right there.

It's easy enough to proove, that various people and perons, on any given day, DO in fact drive at speeds, greater then reasonable or prudent in regards to weather , visibility orand yaddiyaddiyadda.


No per son shall,
but many do
And the fact they do, did invalidates the 'shall not' part.

the second somebody does, what the shall not refer s to
the shall not becomes invalid, an untruth, a lie.

It's basic language ! hence that text is worth a bout , fuchall.

If they want to enforce a speed limit , It should read:

"No person is allowed/permitted to drive , etc etc etc."

And then you can say, oi, you drove to fast, you shouldn't and we will get you for it.
But referring to "the text says nobody shall" when somebody did... it's just ignant.

That's what i was thinking. In other words why is he explaining the basic speed law in a way that implies that the "real" speed limit is above the posted speed limit. It is nonsense.
He should have said we patrol where the city wants us to for the traffic units they (the city) pay for. Your street is not on the list as a place to patrol.

this.

I had someone go nuts on me saying the speed limit was mandatory not exceed 25MPH from a yellow sign.

He insisted otherwise. Funny thing, the sign had been taken down years ago, it wasn't even there at the time of confrontation! (Other funny thing, I was going 15MPH).

I guess rules are different for Porsche's.

Without knowing the road, I won't comment on the individual situation.

There are two 25MPH posted roads I some times take as a peaceful alternative to traffic. One directly has yard as the edge of the road from the moment I take it, and small lots/houses close up. That one, 25MPH is quite reasonable, perhaps a little fast.(Kids, etc.) The other, the houses are deep, recessed, there is a huge side walk, then large section of grass from side walk to road. That one really should be at least 35MPH. Not a lot of hap-hazard situations on that one.

I have empirical data on this, apparently 'speeding' isn't the same if you are driving a Hyundai Vs a Miata (or Porsche).

I have had CHP pass me on the freeway doing 80... in the Hyundai... I have had the CHP pull me over on the freeway in the Miata... because a brake light was out.

I know the LEO's will deny this... "I don't tag cars because of make/model/color" but you can't deny human nature either.

Since you know the sargeant's name you can look him up @

Transparent California

This site is great to understand the catastrophe that is California government.

Then you will see why the goldbricker won't do anything and why you can't make him do anything. LOL, 26 mph will be speeding when he gets you ;)