Electrical snafu - advice requested, please...
 

This has happened a couple times now...the most recent was last evening.

I will call my electrician on Tuesday to acquire assistance.

In the meantime, wanted to seek input from the brain trust.

My electrical panel is in my kitchen. Electric comes straight in to back of house and into panel. No other panels in structure.

I also have no GFI receptacles. None.

What is happening is a power outage on the circuit the feeds stuff in the kitchen, along with my AC (air handler located behind kitchen wall).

Affected are: electric range, fridge, washer, dryer, and AC.

These are on separate circuits according to electric panel. No breakers are ever tripped in the panel when this happens.

So what happens is after a while...the power comes back on...by itself.

All appliances working fine - no damage to anything.

Also, no power outages from the city source. It's an internal deal.

I've not done anything to the electrics in a long time and the panel is the original that came with the house 50 years ago.

Again...no tripped breakers.

Power goes out......then comes on a couple hours later.

Most of house is not affected. Just the stuff mentioned above.

I also checked to make sure all appliances were plugged in properly and didn't see any issues there.

Thoughts?

Are all the affected devices either 220V or on one side of the panel?

You might be losing one phase.

I would put a neon or test light on each side of the 'hot' lines to neutral.

This.
Plus, take the cover off the box and look for is any evidence of burning or if you notice any heat coming off of any of the connections. I would minimize power usage if I was you. No AC, no cooking on the range.

Smell and look in your panel.

And don't assume the power utility co isn't the source of your trouble....

Ask your neighbor if they have a similar issue.

Sounds like the feed to one of the bus bars is affected, like others have mentioned. I had a similar problem on a barn where one the supply connections was loose and affected by the wind. Be careful, that electricity will smack you hard!

Get out. Your house is haunted. Don't ask me how I know.

Me...I'd read the "damn near killed you thread" then call a pro :).

I would look at the bussbar and the circuit breaker connections. either way you are getting into the panel. try wiggling the breaker to see if it is a simple connection issue.

C4S is on the right path.

When does the problem occur? I would assume during periods of heavy use.

Are you comfortable taking your panel cover off and taking pictures?

Hey everyone...thanks for the replies and input so far.

Looks like (according to the legend) most affected are on the left side, except the dryer - which is on the right side - so not sure if that is an indication of the problem or not.

No burn smell (or smoke).

I took the cover off and took a few pics.

I don't know what to look for but if anyone sees something fishy - I'm all ears. Looks like a little corrosion on the 2 lower left white wires but all else looks OK to me.

Thanks again for any thoughts...SmileWavy

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Those FPE Stab-Loc panels are bad news..... Home inspectors and electricians usually recommend replacement.

Your issue sounds like 1 side of main breaker, or one of the legs feeding the house has problems.

Seriously, google FPE Stab-Loc, before your electrician shows up.

Sorry, that's a nasty looking panel. If that were in my house, I would replace it.

Commercial Grade Federal Pacific Electric FPE Stab-Lok® Panel Circuit Breaker & Electrical Panel Hazards?

Can you get a better pic of where the wire attaches below the main breaker? Does if look like it might be failing like this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1495995163.jpg

As mentioned by others, a quick panel changeout is in your future!

Find someone to change it out and have them permit the job and have it inspected after.

It really shouldn't be all that expensive. Home Depot and others sell panels loaded with breakers that you are likely to need.

I got rid of my Federal panels from the same era and now have left over space in my new panel.

How's this? Little dirty but looks OK to me, but I'm no expert....


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I once heard from a farmer that for something like that, you shut all the breakers off, go outside and pull the meter and give the seventh space down on the right side a turn or two

Are you comfortable measuring AC volts in the panel?

If so, next time you have a problem, measure:

1) 2 lugs near top of panel, where the 2 heave black wires connect. If you get 220-240, then lines coming in are ok,
2) Output (2 screws) on the main 50 amp breaker. If #1 is ok, but these are less than 220-240, then the main breaker is bad.

However, if it was me, I'd probably turn off the A/C, eat out (don't use range/oven) trying not to 'draw heavy current' until your electrician checks it out......

I recently fixed my Brother in Laws with similar issues - found he has an older Challenger type panel. Wiggling breakers would restore circuits. The breaker contacts to the bus bars on a couple of breakers were spread and there was signs of arcing and sparking. A file and new breakers with tight contacts bought him some more time, but a new panel was suggested. There are some dangerous older panels out there...

Oh, they would work okay cold, but as they heated up they would go offline - randomly.

OK thanks for followup advice. Good stuff and will check out voltage.

Wanted to also mention........a short time ago I opened the fridge and noticed the light was off (no power) - so I turned on one of the range burners and heard a little buzz and the power came back on - for both. Is it possible the range has a problem which is affecting others on that circuit? Thought that was strange. Has happened that way twice now....

If you're panel happens to be labelled correctly, fridge/range on different breakers.

My gut feeling is the main breaker.

But I'd change the panel, given what I've read about those panels/breakers.

Frankly it's now or later. When you sell house a home inspector is going to flag it. Might as well do it now.

Something similar happened to me years ago. All of the plugs on one breaker would go off and then back on. I got a receptacle tester and it read open hot. Then it fixed itself. No idea what the problem was.

Baz, what some of us might do could get that working again, but it could get you knocked on your bazz. If you don't mess with panels, don't start now. If you were to mess with it, use the buddy system, and don't do it alone.

No doubt a new panel would resolve all your problems. There is a lot of oxidation in there

I am wading into not so familiar waters. I don't see a main breaker. I see the street wires coming in on top.

What am I missing? Surely there has to be a main breaker to shut the box down.

Edit:
Looking at the panel cover, I think the breakers above the 'main' are fed directly by the main line coming in? Perhaps there is a breaker at the meter pan? (BAZ?)

I now see that 'MAIN' is labelled 'Main for Lights' on the cover, and probably only protects the breakers below it.

Possibly part of the reason why this panel gets no love.....

Good evening gentlemen.....

Again...thank you so much for your continued input on my electrical spook.....

Except for the one very brief episode earlier today - all systems are go.

I do have a volt meter ready in case things shut down again to check input and output on some of the lugs. I know what I'm doing at least for doing this so should be fine.

To answer the question about a main breaker - outside there's only the disconnect box going to the AC just below the meter. So maybe there's no main inside this panel. I'm assuming the directory is accurate too.

I will call my electrician on Tuesday and ask him for his opinion. I do agree that changing out the panel wouldn't hurt but would like to try and pin down what is causing this spook if possible before doing anything else.

I also have a buddy who is retired from working down at the Cape and he's very experienced with electrical work so likely will elicit his opinion as well.

I will post again if anything happens news worthy......thanks again for the generous input - you guys are awesome! :)

I've never seen a panel like that.
Good advise to minimize useage. No cooking, no dryer, no AC. I would even turn the water heater off. If it's a bad connection somewhere, trying to draw current through it can overheat it and start a fire.

Keep it to that.

As Lavelle Crawford's Mom says "I don't wan't you touching shiet, I don't want you askin' about shiet. In fact keep your eyes closed.

Watch for one minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHsXuIxAUgk

Lavelle was Huell in Breaking Bad.

When was the house built and do you have copper or aluminum wire?
A lot of houses in FL have aluminum wire.

If your panel is from Federal Pacific replace it! FP also stands for fire probably. The breakers have an issue with not tripping when they're overloaded and they overheat. In my area of the country an independent inspector would highly advise replacing the panel upon anyone interested buying a house that is for sale with this panel. It'll cost you between $600-$1100 but cheap insurance. You're living on borrowed Time.

At that age I think it would be copper, but that's a good question.

Aluminum wire can be a real bugger. I had it a house once...

I see corrosion and poor connections heating up the wires. I would replace the panel and use an anti-oxidation compound on the terminals. Some of the wiring may have damaged insulation from the heat and be too brittle to reuse. It will crack and fall off when moving the wire.

Hey everyone....been a while but finally got to the bottom of the problem. Since May I haven't had any more outages so didn't worry about it, but last weekend it started doing it again so my buddy who is an electrician was over today and pointed out one of the connectors was very corroded on the lines feeding the meter through the mast on the roof. Called our utility company and an hour later the lineman came over and respliced all 3 wires. And just like that....back in business!

I still plan to switch out the panel at some point.

Thanks again for everyone's help - most of you were spot on with where to look for the problem. I just didn't notice the corroded connector on the roof.......

Here's the connector/splice that was corroded.....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508191324.JPG

And here is a before and after of the wires that were respliced.

In the first pic it's hard to see the corroded connector but it's right there in front of the mast.....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508191681.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1508191681.JPG

Wow! That's scary. Glad this was found.

Electrons like loops and sweeps, not hairpin turns and switchbacks.

Salt air.

I didn't see your original thread, but that's what was going through my mind right now. We had the same thing, one of the 2 power feeds was starting to crack going into the weatherhead of the house, and depending on temp/load/wind we would lose some outlets, or even half the house. It was only when I went outside during one of these events and saw some very slight arcing in the wire that we diagnosed it. The breaker panel seemed fine, the house wiring seemed fine, and it was sporadic and random based on a couple of parameters combined. Same deal, told someone in charge to fix the finger sized wire, and all has been good since.