Be Careful What You Wish For.....

[John Rogers]

Sometimes things will not go as you want them to! The recent collisions of the Navy ships and the fact that poor manning levels and automation probably had a good part in the whole thing reminded me of an incident back in 1977 or so when I was stationed on the CGN25, USS Bainbridge. This one was nuclear powered and as we worked up for deployment several of the engineering rates were manned to low. Some watch rotation was 6 x 6 which is really bad. Especially the MM's and nuc ET's. Seems that all the new people were going to the USS Nimitz as it was just coming on line. Sooooo us group of nuclear chiefs got together and wrote a letter to BUPERS about poor manning and lack of PO1's and such and after a few mods the CO signed it and away it went up the chain of command. We never heard a thing for about 6 months and then there was a nuclear cruiser wide letter that came out and guess what........BUPERS changed the manning levels so they matched what we had at the present time!!! Boy what a mistake that was although we finally did get additional people!

[sc_rufctr]

Interesting story. I've always wondered what it would be like to be responsible for nuclear weapons. That must have been a huge weight on a young mans shoulders.

Back in the day I was just 20 years old and after basic training I did everything I was ordered to do even if I didn't understand it at the time. IME people who haven't served don't understand that mind set but you had a job to do and that was it.

Thanks for your service.

[John Rogers]

Thanks for the feedback. We were taught in our physics classes that the U235 in the reactors could never "explode" like a nuclear weapon, BUT probably worse is a melt down such as in Japan or Canada where the material making the fuel cell shape turns to melted butter and can actually catch fire and then the radiation is spread all over! The fuel pellets are too far apart for the big bang. We used to carry 4 nuclear missiles for each launcher and I always worried what if the wrong one were loaded up accidentally and then.......

[Tobra]

6 and 6 watches suck, tired all the time, and tired people make mistakes.

[oldE]

Originally Posted by John Rogers

BUT probably worse is a melt down such as in Japan or Canada where the material making the fuel cell shape turns to melted butter and can actually catch fire and then the radiation is spread all over!..

Geez, John!

Is there something you know we've never heard of?
AFAIK, the only melt downs/accidents I know of were Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and Fukushima.

Best
Les

[1990C4S]

I don't think that happened....no meltdowns. Hydrogen explosion, alpha particles released (fire), loss of cooling, then a bunch of lesser (some maintenance based).

[John Rogers]

Try to find a copy of the book "We Almost Lost Detroit" which covers all the accidents and incidents that have occurred. The one in Canada was on the Calk River if I remember correctly and was during a refueling when the fuel cells were in a removal cask that was full of fuel cells and water. It was left hanging over a weekend I think it was and the rubber seal on the bottom leaked all the water out and the cooling pump system ran dry. Well the fuel got hotter and hotter and finally melted down into a big burning lump and leaked out the bottom. Can't use water to put out a fire like that sooooooo the Canadian Army took turns dumping shovels of sand on the hot metal!

The US Navy uses the same method to pull fuel cells and put new ones in so we (the Navy) had a person watching these casks when not in movement! The reactor term 'Crud" comes from another accident at Chalk River, I.E. "Chalk River Undetermined Deposits"

[oldE]

Thanks John.
One of my brothers worked for Control Data Corp maintaining the super computers at Chalk River from the late 60s to the mid 80s. I have visited the facility and walked over the reactors. Had never heard about the fuel handling screw ups.
Best
Les

[John Rogers]

Here's one last funny nuclear bit for you. In 1975 we were refueling the reactor core at the D1G training facility in upstate New York, near Saratoga Springs. Back then computers were main frames and not very accurate or sophisticated but the GE engineers tried running safety programs anyways.

We received a new big hook for the crane that did the heavy lifting inside "the ball" and it was x-rayed to insure it was okay. Well they found a void inside bigger than your fist and the crane company had to grind into it, weld it and do repairs. The computer engineers ran a simulation on what would happen if the hook snapped just as the reactor vessel cover was over top the pressure vessel with the fuel cells and control rods installed. It showed the shock of the hit was so great that the control rods would bounce up and the core would go super critical so fast that the water surrounding the cells would vaporize! The fuel cells would start to melt and the rods could not stop things going to hell! The fuel would start burning and actually melt through the bottom of the stainless steel pressure vessel, then into the ground underneath and not stop until approximately 250 feet!

Sort of like a Chernobyl with 100% of the on site people dyed in less than 2 hours! I looked at the shift schedule and oh my oh my I was supposed to be on that day so I got sick and stayed home for several days, just in case!!!! No problems after all but I was rested.

[sc_rufctr]

John, Your hook story reminded me of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian#Recovery

[John Rogers]

That floating hanger sort of thing and such sat at the Naval Station 32ND street in San Diego and it had a cloth like cover over one end next to Harbor Drive but the wind would blow it open all the time. Several of us walked over there one afternoon to see what the hell was in there and there was NO security at all. We walked around a bit and then left. There was a huge barge with the lifting gear on it before it was put on the Glomar Explorer!

[daepp]

I didn't think there was a meltdown at 3 Mile Island. Am I wrong?

[oldE]

From Wiki

The Three Mile Island accident was caused by a nuclear meltdown that occurred on March 28, 1979, in reactor number 2 of Three Mile Island Nuclear Generating Station (TMI-2) in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, United States. It was the most significant accident in U.S. commercial nuclear power plant history.[2]

Chain of mistakes.

Best
Les

[Seahawk]

Fun fact from my family history: My father was a nuke instructor in Idaho falls in the early 60's. He was an Army Officer and responded to this accident:

Nuclear Meltdown in Idaho: 3 Dead – Getting to GREENR

The Argonne Low Power Reactor (ALPR) was designed and built in 1958 by Argonne National Laboratory at a military test facility about 40 miles from Idaho Falls. Shortly after it became operational, it was handed over to the U.S. Army and renamed SL-1 in accordance with Army nomenclature. Its purpose was to test the feasibility of building small-capacity nuclear power plants in the Arctic for military radar stations that monitored Soviet air activities. The idea was to generate 200 kilowatts—just enough for an average-sized house. The whole kit ‘n caboodle was designed to be portable.

He entered SL-1 three times after the meltdown, pulling those he could find out.

He received a Bronze Star for his efforts.

I see if I can find the citation and pictures.

He resigned his commission after a tour in Vietnam. He lived to be 85. The family joke was that all the radiation he was exposed to helped!