States are now passing laws preventing employers from asking what you currently earn.
The idea is the job should pay based on the work, and that this question enforces past biases keeping women and others underpaid.

First step is to clarify the job. That is only fair. You want to include as many high value items as possible so they need you. Get them to agree to the tasks BEFORE you talk any more salary. Otherwise neither side can agree on what they are paying for and you are working for.

Once the job is defined and you are still interested, then anytime you come down there must be a cost to them. Otherwise they will continue to say lower, lower, lower. why not.

Next time salary comes up, postulate on the salary for a full time, deduct 2 days and work back to what your asking for. Make it obvious THEY are being unreasonable.

Or you could work up by taking their defined problem (job task) and walk through the value to the company and what it is costing them.

Remember the company must pay employees less than their full value to the company, and pay more than you believe your time is worth (or you won't accept it). That middle ground is what you are figuring out.

Good luck, I really hope this works out for you

Good luck, Leaky.....can't provide anything other than the tried and true ism:

"If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life!"

I actually went through this exact same discussion a few weeks ago.......started a new gig last Monday. When posed with the question, 'what would it take for us to have you come to [my new gig]?' I flipped it back on them. I posed the response, 'actually, I am curious to what you would be considering offering me.' They were very honest and told me the range for my position.

To other posters point's the bottom dollar is only one factor. Consider 401k match, stocks, corp car, vacation, healthcare etc.. I turned down another offer while they offered fully pre-paid monthly healthcare benefit, but slightly less base.

Again- A sincere THANKS for all the advice and support. I really am kicking myself for not asking the brain trust for input earlier, but this does give me some good talking points for tomorrow.

As stated in the True Happiness thread- "Attitude is everything."

It really is. I've read it once. I've read it twice. I need that tattooed to my freakin' forehead!!!!

Forehead tattoo = 20% pay increase, EASILY!

^ hell yeah!!!! :)

After seeing your handle 'leakyseals951' I thought I'd share a resume anecdote. As part of my personal background on my latest job landing resume, I penned 'Project 951 and Project 335' saying 'i have a penchant for taking apart perfectly working overly engineered German cars and turning them into project cars.'

ohhh.. I think I can one up ya here buddy! :) - not that I'd put THIS on my resume. LOL....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1513826590.jpg


attidude is everything. attitude is everything. attitude is everything...... (like- look at the "right stance" of my fuchs to the body even after is all got toasted!)

have a good one! Cheers!
Ron

If you can bring that back to life, you are hired!

^^^ clearly not well set-up^^^^^^^^

I agree with a lot of the above. Personally I wouldn’t even consider a salary discussion in a first interview. It’s completely inappropriate unless they’re clearly looking to make you an offer right then and there. If they press for a “salary expectation” on the first interview I’ll admonish them (yes I’ve done this) and say I’m not prepared to discuss that at this time, but may (like you did) give them a RANGE (not a number) for the full compensation package value at your present or past jobs.

On a second or subsequent discussion (when it’s more appropriate) it’s best to say you’re negotiable (again, like you did) but any salary number needs to be considered in the context of the value of the entire remuneration package including benefits (“...so let’s talk about those so I have a better understanding of what the whole thing is worth...) Health insurance, life insurance, optional disability, vacation / personal time, etc. are HUGELY IMPORTANT and any discussion of compensation is grossly incomplete without carefully factoring in the values of those...

If they press you for a number, walk out. Seriously. I’ve literally ended and walked out of interviews when they tried to push me for a number. If they do, it’s clear they’re just bottom-fishing and in many cases I suspect they have no intention of giving you the position - they’re only using you get enough data points with respect to a salary range for that position, possibly for future filling or to offer to someone else who they’ve already decided on (just need to get the offer straight for that person).

Don’t be their test mule. If they press you on money (ESPECIALLY early on) it’s perfectly appropriate to say “thanks but no thanks, I can tell this probably won’t be a good fit and we should end this interview here so we’re respectful of one another’s time, thanks for the opportunity to discuss it with you”. Have some balls and stand up for yourself. Walk out. Yes, really. Eventually you’ll find a place that’ll pay you what you’re really worth and you’ll both be happy about it. That’s the place you want to invest half your life. Not a place that views you as expendable labor and an expense rather than a treasured resource.

Remember an interview (ESPECIALLY a first one) is where you’re supposed to be evaluating THEM, not just the other way around. If it’s disappointing to walk out consider how disappointed you’ll be going through a grind every day for an employer you know views you with disdain and would rather replace you with a robot / illegal immigrant / whatever and who you feel screwed you on compensation. It’s a recipe for failure. You’ll be miserable, you won’t work to potential and you’ll both lose.

Good luck! Head up, backbone.

I've read this somewhere as well before. The correct response, as I recall, and I have used it as well, "I'm sure if we get to the appropriate point of this process, you will offer a competitive package..." or something to that effect.

"California employers can no longer ask job applicants about their prior salary and — if applicants ask — must give them a pay range for the job they are seeking, under a new state law that takes effect Jan. 1."

Gotta love it..

I wouldn't want to waste the time getting to the second interview, if the job pays half what I need to take it. Why not hash that out upfront? Maybe you can find a good ballpark on Glassdoor.com.

I got called by a place to come in for an interview, was a good 40 minutes into it when the guy asked how much I needed. When I told him, he said, "That's just not going to happen here." He proceeded to explain that, even if I was the top producer, I'd get to maybe 75% of that number, and that was a grueling job. We ended it there.

Happened again a year ago, when I got called in, got a tour of the whole place (ammo production plant), presented a business plan, all aspects of a totally new job. Killed it. They called me a few days later to come in again. I had to rent a car because my folks had taken mine on a short trip. Big boss asked me some questions and then about money. Never heard from them again. I later saw they had revised their ad and mentioned the job paid way less than half of what I said I needed to make the jump.

Yeah, I don't understand that at all. Equifax has a service by which you can look up someone's salary history anyway; I looked up mine, and it had every paycheck all the way back to the late 90's.

This.

Very early on in my career I had a good opportunity. Mom told me "never give them your number"

I make it through all the interview rounds and now I'm in with the Owner.

We get to money,

"how much you want?"

what are you offering

"that depends on what you need"

I can let you know if I can work with your offer

etc....etc...etc....

We go a few more rounds and I'm starting to sweat it cause I wanted the gig and eventually cave and throw out a number.

He leans across the desk to shake my hand and says "Deal" and as it he sits back in his chair says "I thought you were going to cost me a lot more"

**** me.

Not much to disagree with here.

Spot on.

Well- as an update, I reread this entire thread, I spoke with the director briefly today, and then wrote an offer that will go down in infamy!!!!:D

Basically, I was asked to give my lowest price offer. I reiterated my vision, what I would bring to the company, and used a condensed version of Porsche O' Philes comment of

" any salary number needs to be considered in the context of the value of the entire remuneration package including benefits (“...so let’s talk about those so I have a better understanding of what the whole thing is worth...) Health insurance, life insurance, optional disability, vacation / personal time, etc. are HUGELY IMPORTANT and any discussion of compensation is grossly incomplete without carefully factoring in the values of those... "

And them told them I could not give a lowest price offer. Not enough info- besides, I am an investment. Call me if interested :D


Basically, I might really regret not taking the job (especially if I lose mine in the near future), but there really wasn't enough info to work with. I also think the new director really is into drastic cost cutting, which is not going to attract long term retention.

Yeah.... I'm not going to be holding out for a phone call on that one;) , but it was appropriate to write. As a cheesy 80's aside- I felt like the kids from the movie "breakfast club" where they wrote that letter back to the principal stating they thought the assignment (about writing a letter of "who do you think you are?" )was ridiculous. And as the kids wrote back- "You see us as you want to see us."

Again- thanks all!
Ron

Ouch!!!
Wow, 3 awesome posts (SM's is awesome because it's unfortunate, but also pretty darn funny, probably having a lot to do with his presentation)

Since retiring from the US Navy I never took a job that paid less than the one I was in. In my work as a senior Oracle Database Administrator I knew what the going rate was in the San Diego area and generally when I got to the point of the 2nd or 3rd interview I knew how much I could ask for. I turned down several jobs that could have been pretty nice except one had the HR person said since I was retired Navy why should my pay be so high. I stood up and said I had spent over 20 years keeping the office people of San Diego free and walked out. Got a call that afternoon from the VP of the computer section saying that was a "test".....I told her that should revise their exams. The last job I had before retirement was with a company in dire straights as their current DBA had a nervous break down and the final interviewer spent nearly 3 hours telling me about all their problems (it was Friday) and I said I would start on Saturday but he said Monday was the earliest and they actually paid me 10% more than I had asked for!

I guess what I am saying is do your research, know what YOU are worth and figure how badly they want you.