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-   -   Does the world need another car club (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/982383-does-world-need-another-car-club.html)

ckelly78z 12-31-2017 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted (Post 9867307)
I've been in a dozen car clubs, most car clubs are way too political.
PCA meetings made me feel like I was at a contentious Condo association meeting.

I just want to enjoy my car hobby not manage a club of guys that drive cars like mine.
I found more quality in smaller groups where there is less time spent on club business and more time spent bench racing or better yet driving. :)
This was my experience with PCA meetings also. I don't need to be part of something bigger to feel justified. I have never been, or never will be a purist, and have modified my own 944 to my liking regardless of what the factory wanted.

wildthing 12-31-2017 07:34 AM
I don't need another car club. I just want to autocross more often!

Of course, meeting like minded folks at a cars and coffee type event ain't bad either. There just seems so few and far between here, unlike LA.

Jeff Higgins 12-31-2017 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 9866982)
I was an involved member of the 356 Registry 30 years ago. That experience was enough to turn me off to car clubs of any kind. I'm in PCA for the DEs. I have no interest in it or any club for any other reason.
I hear you. I've been involved in a number of more "serious" car and motorcycle clubs over the years. I resolved quite some time ago "never again". I, too, remain in the PCA solely for its DE days. I pays my money, shows up, drives, and goes home - no involvement whatsoever in the social or political end of it. They can have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ted (Post 9867307)
I've been in a dozen car clubs, most car clubs are way too political.
PCA meetings made me feel like I was at a contentious Condo association meeting.

I just want to enjoy my car hobby not manage a club of guys that drive cars like mine.
I found more quality in smaller groups where there is less time spent on club business and more time spent bench racing or better yet driving. :)
Exactly. And this is why I love the R Gruppe. It really is a "non-club members" club. None of the politics, bylaws, and b.s. It's a great club for guys who hate clubs. There really is no "club business", no "rules", none of that. No meetings, meeting minutes, or formalities or drudgery inherent in more "organized" clubs. Just good times spent with close friends who all share the same interest.

Zeke 12-31-2017 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Douglas (Post 9866780)
Well... they shut the door on Tabs.
Well, first of all, I have not met you. I confused you with another "Douglas."

Secondly, they did shut the door on Tabs as he denounced the RG on this very forum many years ago. Too many years ago to be of any importance. But one can expect to be ostracized if one publicly rags on another or a gruppe, as it were.

Thank you Mr. Higgins for your compliment on how I perceived the RGruppe. I really didn't belong to the spirit and intent of the RG. It was sort of a mismatch. But that goes to show you that anyone that can put forth the effort to be an RGruppe member can be and deserves to be one. There's a huge amount of camaraderie that goes along with the RG. And some members really put a lot of effort towards that end. Slackers will eventually fall out.

Por_sha911 12-31-2017 11:06 AM
I was member of PCA for a number of years. I found that each local region had its own identity. I wanted to join a group that loved air cooled, did their own repairs, liked car shows. In my region it was either folks who wanted to eat out or autocross and DE. I didn't need more friends, didn't care for the drama between folks, tried AutoX and decided not to thrash my car, went out to eat... I hung with it for a while but when my work changed and I couldn't come to the meetings I dropped the membership. I have learned that other regions are far from this so the best thing to do is attend a few meetings (eating out) and see if you click with them.

Jeff Higgins 12-31-2017 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 9867556)
Thank you Mr. Higgins for your compliment on how I perceived the RGruppe. I really didn't belong to the spirit and intent of the RG. It was sort of a mismatch. But that goes to show you that anyone that can put forth the effort to be an RGruppe member can be and deserves to be one. There's a huge amount of camaraderie that goes along with the RG. And some members really put a lot of effort towards that end. Slackers will eventually fall out.
Thanks, Zeke. You are spot on once again.

I think the most important thing is just hanging out with us long enough to see if it's a "fit" or not. If it's a fit, great, if not, it's no big deal. We are all still friends in the end.

Funny, a lot of guys who find they just don't fit into our approach will cite the lack of any semblance of organization or rules. It's way too casual for them. Drives 'em nuts.

I'm glad you touched on the effort part of it. Kind of one of the unfortunate consequences of achieving a bit of notoriety is that we see folks showing up, or inquiring about membership, who merely want a cool window sticker and "bragging rights". They will stick around just long enough, put just enough effort into it to achieve that, and then disappear. This seems to happen most often when they want to sell their mega-buck checkbook build... They seem to think an R Gruppe sticker in the window somehow raises its cache and, therefor, value. We've gotten pretty good at recognizing that type over the years, and have also gotten pretty good at ignoring them. Maybe some of those folks are the ones who have fed our negative image over the years...

So, yeah, effort. Effort is everything. Participation. Why, after all, would anyone join a club and not want to actively participate? Especially when "participate" simply means hanging out and driving with us, with none of the other b.s. attached. Looked at that way, it really isn't much "effort" at all.

Bill Douglas 12-31-2017 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 9866903)
You and I have met. I think you're an OK guy. Your have evidence of your statement?

It was quite some time ago. If I remember correctly Tabs was doing his best to wind them up and they got sick of him and said "No More." But you'll have to ask Tabs if this is true.

exploserous 01-04-2018 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogus (Post 9866710)
Living near SF it seems like everyone talks about how hard it is to get into R Gruppe. Any other sf bay area clubs come to mind? I'm debating starting one with some friends otherwise :)
I'm not in any clubs, but I'm always looking for folks to drive with. I'll be at Easy and Portola c&c this weekend if you want to talk cars and go for a drive.

wildthing 01-04-2018 10:59 PM
Or drive to Nepenthe on Saturday.

t6dpilot 01-05-2018 05:20 AM
Well said on your first post Jeff. I was going to say the exact same thing, but you already took the words right out of my mouth. I will second Jeff's suggestion to attend the EASY gathering the first Saturday of each month. Especially since you are in the Bay Area. Looks like you have an early car and who knows, it might tick some boxes in the hotrod vein. Post some pics if you don't mind. Like Jeff said, low key gathering with lots of cool cars both RG and not.

mikehinton 01-05-2018 10:21 AM
There's also an excellent Cars & Coffee up in Marin County (132 Vintage Way in Novato, Vintage Oaks shopping center) on the first Sunday of every month. Great variety of cars, and lots of friendly people. FB page says it starts at 7:30, but you'll want to arrive earlier if you want a good place to park.

rcooled 01-05-2018 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogus (Post 9866710)
Any other sf bay area clubs come to mind? I'm debating starting one with some friends...
The Blackhawk Museum in Danville hosts a big C&C on the first Sunday of every month...good place to meet up with like-minded folks.
Further south is the C&C at Canepa Design in Scotts Valley, just South over the mountains from San Jose. It's held on the second Saturday of each month from April thru October. This event attracts everything from home-built customs, hotrods and American muscle to million-dollar vintage Ferraris, Mercedes and other European classics. The best part is the unrestricted free access to the on-site motorsports museum and race/restoration shops.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1515195653.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1515194808.jpg

Even the occasional oddball will show up now & then.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1515195475.jpg

Nickshu 01-05-2018 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 9866992)
"check book" restoration
One of my favorite terms...along with "checkbook mechanic" :D

msort81 01-08-2018 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 9866992)
Thanks, Zeke, for your perspective on this. You are spot on - your "osmosis" explanation nails it.

R Gruppe is a very simple club to "join" - all you have to do is show up and participate. Yes, you need an early car, because we are, well, an early car club. Kind of like the requirement to own an early Ford F100 if you would like to join an early Ford F100 club, or a '55, '56, or '57 Chevy if you want to join a club for those.

The real key is "show up and participate". There are no anonymous members taking up space on a roster, members that no one meets. If you want that, join the PCA - you can be a member for life and never show up, never participate. They don't care. We do. The R Gruppe is all about friends who enjoy sharing the hobby with one another.

Anyone and everyone are always welcome at any R Gruppe event, regardless of what you drive. About the only event that I can think of that we set aside anything at all for members only is our annual big gathering, our "Treffen". Our block of hotel rooms, and our banquet, are indeed reserved for members, due to the obvious logistics involved in planning for such things. But Treffen itself - the get together in the hotel parking lot, the camaraderie, the general tomfoolery, are open to all. Just find a place to stay and join us for the fun.

Rogus, since you are in the Bay Area, the best thing you can do is to start going to the cars and coffee events at Jim Breazeale's EASY (European Auto Salvage Yard). This is the monthly gathering of early Porsche enthusiasts (not all R Gruppe, by the way) in the Bay Area. You'll meet lots of R Gruppe folks there. Here is his website: EASY - European Auto Salvage Yard Give Jim a call and he will tell you which day they do this.

Again, with R Gruppe, participation is the key. Maybe that is why some folks think it is "hard". They think their super cool, super special garage/concours queen somehow "earns" them membership, and they can just fill out an application, send a check, and become a "member". No way. You just need to show up, driving your car. Rock chips and grease under your fingernails are what we are looking for, not some pampered "check book" restoration driven by some fool who is more interested in its collector value than in having fun driving it.

So, yeah, it really is that easy - just show up. Hang out with us, drive with us, and as long as you are genuinely interested in both (as opposed to just getting a sticker in your window), membership just kind of "happens". Like Zeke says, by "osmosis". Go meet the guys at EASY - you will have a good time.
Thanks for the good perspective Jeff. It sounds quite approachable and not the elitist bunch the internet paints your club to be. I always believed to be in the R group you had to have modded a longhood based on the factory sport purpose pamphlet. but i guess that sort of distinction, in the days of the Singer, and so many high $ builds, has become moot. I did see a couple of obvious backdates sporting R group or rather 'gruppe' badges, plates and such at the Patrick Long event in LA.
The part about and being an active member to see if you gel seems very logical, and is probably the most important thing. Because it's seemingly about having a early car, real or reimagined, and showing up I guess like many of us i'm wondering how do you find out about where the R Gruppe events are ?

Cue fight club references ...

Rodsrsr 01-08-2018 07:37 AM
For me the cars and coffee is fine and I actually prefer seeing a variety of cars other than just Porsches. The club might make more sense if ones into DE's or autocross though.

1979-930 01-09-2018 08:33 AM
Clubs are too much work. I joined the PCA based on a recommendation. I like the Panorama Mag the best. There is a one day drive in the Fall that I like to go on and occasionally go to the monthly breakfast. The group is a lot older than me, all have new modern Porsches, and have time for the planning and volunteer work. I'm kind of the odd duck in the group.
The biggest challenges is I own a construction company, married and have two kids in multiple sports. I feel guilty being in a Club because I just can't pull my weight.

I have a couple of friends that I have met at events that text me when they are taking a drive. They are into the social media thing and know what is going on.
I'm the old guy in that group. But they are more fun and zero maintenance.

pwd72s 01-09-2018 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979-930 (Post 9878579)
Clubs are too much work. I joined the PCA based on a recommendation. I like the Panorama Mag the best. There is a one day drive in the Fall that I like to go on and occasionally go to the monthly breakfast. The group is a lot older than me, all have new modern Porsches, and have time for the planning and volunteer work. I'm kind of the odd duck in the group.
The biggest challenges is I own a construction company, married and have two kids in multiple sports. I feel guilty being in a Club because I just can't pull my weight.

I have a couple of friends that I have met at events that text me when they are taking a drive. They are into the social media thing and know what is going on.
I'm the old guy in that group. But they are more fun and zero maintenance.
Touched on something there. A lifestyle that doesn't permit commitments enters in.
Cindy & I often get invited to join a pool league team. Health issues mean we have to live day to day, can't really guarantee we'll be somewhere at a certain time. So, no "clubs" for us. Would hate having a team count on us being there, yet not able to show...

Jeff Higgins 01-09-2018 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by msort81 (Post 9876888)
Thanks for the good perspective Jeff. It sounds quite approachable and not the elitist bunch the internet paints your club to be. I always believed to be in the R group you had to have modded a longhood based on the factory sport purpose pamphlet. but i guess that sort of distinction, in the days of the Singer, and so many high $ builds, has become moot. I did see a couple of obvious backdates sporting R group or rather 'gruppe' badges, plates and such at the Patrick Long event in LA.
The part about and being an active member to see if you gel seems very logical, and is probably the most important thing. Because it's seemingly about having a early car, real or reimagined, and showing up I guess like many of us i'm wondering how do you find out about where the R Gruppe events are ?

Cue fight club references ...
We really don't hold "events" per se (way too much work) other than our yearly spring gathering somewhere in California, known as our "Treffen". That, and a fall gathering down south known as "Bergrennen". While the block of hotel rooms we reserve are set aside for members, anyone and everyone is welcome to join us. There is often room left in the same hotel or, at worst, a nearby hotel that can accommodate you. No dates have been set for this year just yet.

I think the best way to hook up with us is just to approach someone who appears to be a member the next time you are at a local car event. If that's not possible, because there are no members in your area, or they don't show up at car events all that often, it might be a little harder.

Your best bet if that doesn't work out is to check on the Early 911 S Registry forum. Most of us are on there, and there are regional forums where you can reach out to the locals. This will be where Treffen and Bergrennen dates and locations will be found, once they are determined. Either that, if you have managed to locate your local constituent, just ask one of them.

Finally, while I don't participate in any kind of social media, I know there is an R Gruppe group on Facebook. Take a look there and see if there is anyone in your area; I believe their Facebook group is accessible to all.

msort81 01-09-2018 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1979-930 (Post 9878579)
Clubs are too much work. I joined the PCA based on a recommendation. I like the Panorama Mag the best. There is a one day drive in the Fall that I like to go on and occasionally go to the monthly breakfast. The group is a lot older than me, all have new modern Porsches, and have time for the planning and volunteer work. I'm kind of the odd duck in the group.
The biggest challenges is I own a construction company, married and have two kids in multiple sports. I feel guilty being in a Club because I just can't pull my weight.

I have a couple of friends that I have met at events that text me when they are taking a drive. They are into the social media thing and know what is going on.
I'm the old guy in that group. But they are more fun and zero maintenance.
Hear ya and being honest i have never been able to get on with the PCA. I find their drives and events more like a parade. Usually i find there are far too many people who have a Porsche for different reasons than i do. To each his own.
The group I drive Porsches with like to do exactly that. Drive Porsches in the way we collectively believe they were meant to be driven. Thats an approach that is not for everyone, but i believe the sense of 'driving involvement' what im in this hobby for.

I have to say being completely present and focussed in the car is a better way of dealing with some of the stress that comes from running a business, and that after a spirited run or weekend away with the cars I return home often tired, but completely focussed because for the last day or two I had no choice but to put my focus completely the road and the car.

msort81 01-09-2018 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 9878769)
We really don't hold "events" per se (way too much work) other than our yearly spring gathering somewhere in California, known as our "Treffen". That, and a fall gathering down south known as "Bergrennen". While the block of hotel rooms we reserve are set aside for members, anyone and everyone is welcome to join us. There is often room left in the same hotel or, at worst, a nearby hotel that can accommodate you. No dates have been set for this year just yet.

I think the best way to hook up with us is just to approach someone who appears to be a member the next time you are at a local car event. If that's not possible, because there are no members in your area, or they don't show up at car events all that often, it might be a little harder.

Your best bet if that doesn't work out is to check on the Early 911 S Registry forum. Most of us are on there, and there are regional forums where you can reach out to the locals. This will be where Treffen and Bergrennen dates and locations will be found, once they are determined. Either that, if you have managed to locate your local constituent, just ask one of them.

Finally, while I don't participate in any kind of social media, I know there is an R Gruppe group on Facebook. Take a look there and see if there is anyone in your area; I believe their Facebook group is accessible to all.
Great thanks for the thoughtful response Jeff.


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