Ban Island

[Tervuren]

I think it was more interesting before we had PARF.

OT had a much broader sense of topic. With the division, there are lots of cool stuff I run into that I don't make threads about because I see implications where it crosses into PARF; yet it would be of the most interest to those note in PARF.

So I just keep those things to myself.

I also really don't see how the thread in question relates to PARF; it is two people having a strong disagreement.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

I also really don't see how the thread in question relates to PARF; it is two people having a strong disagreement.

The thread in question devolved to PARF levels of incivility.

[rfuerst911sc]

Civil discussion is encouraged and that is usually what happens on this forum . Sometimes someone loses their mind and makes a statement like go hang yourself . That type of comment is not needed and adds nothing to the topic . We can agree to disagree that is OK just keep it civil.........my 2 cents keep the change .

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by pavulon

The thread in question devolved to PARF levels of incivility.

There is nothing about PARF that makes it inherently uncivil. The thread had nothing todo with politics or religion. The practice of sending any discussion to PARF (regardless of topic) that became a pissing contest was not a reasonable one. It simply ruins PARF to protect snowflakes in OT. The thread in question was typical of any OT topic where people strongly disagree....an OT level of incivility.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Civil discussion is encouraged and that is usually what happens on this forum . Sometimes someone loses their mind and makes a statement like go hang yourself . That type of comment is not needed and adds nothing to the topic . We can agree to disagree that is OK just keep it civil.........my 2 cents keep the change .

Personally..."go hang yourself" seems pretty mild to me unless one is directing it toward someone known to be suicidal. While it adds nothing...most comments posted here do not add much either. Seems much ado about nothing.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Personally..."go hang yourself" seems pretty mild to me unless one is directing it toward someone known to be suicidal. While it adds nothing...most comments posted here do not add much either. Seems much ado about nothing.

That comment was only part of the attack. What would constitute moderate or severe?

Cherry picking, an unwillingness to consider the perspectives of others or to admit being wrong also underpins the fundamental issues that made PARF necessary.

[Jim Richards]

PARF is fine. Moving some contentious threads to PARF is fine. The current limited moderation is fine.

Oh yeah, Happy New Year Pelicans!

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by fintstone

. . . Seems much ado about nothing.

Agreed - it always makes me laugh to see grown men going full nanny about what someone else wrote here (usually when it did not involve them at all). And to think someone even said that the OT forum behavior of others determines whether or not he will purchase car parts from Pelican - for real?!?!

[cairns]

parf is fine. Moving some contentious threads to parf is fine. The current limited moderation is fine.

Oh yeah, happy new year pelicans!

this.

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

PARF is fine. Moving some contentious threads to PARF is fine. The current limited moderation is fine.

Oh yeah, Happy New Year Pelicans!

YEP, pretty much nailed it with that statement ^^^^ there are some posts I tend to avoid, but have thick enough skin to participate if I feel the need, but more importantly have the time to waste.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by pavulon

That comment was only part of the attack. What would constitute moderate or severe?

Cherry picking, an unwillingness to consider the perspectives of others or to admit being wrong also underpins the fundamental issues that made PARF necessary.

PARF was not designed as a place to send people behaving badly. It was designed as a place to discuss politics and religion. If folks in OT cannot discuss recipes, each others wive's and unrelated (to automobiles) hobbies without getting their feelings hurt, there is an entirely different problem that is totally unreacted to PARF.

My opinion regarding etiquette? I would consider much of what is posted pretty poor behavior and that a very large percentage of what is posted here is mindless pablum (although many seem to enjoy it). That said, if i don't find a thread to my liking, I can simply pass on it. Generally I do if I agree with what is posted...as simple agreement adds nothing to the conversation...so I limit posts (in PARF) generally to posts/ideas I disagree with. The same here.

Personally, I would consider threats against a poster or his family to be pretty poor behavior and need a time out. Self imposed or otherwise (if continued). Beyond that...personal attacks regarding race, religion, sex, handicap, etc. are where I would draw the line (including other's posting personal information/photos not posted here by the subject themselves). Clearly if you post your name and location here, you are making no attempt to keep personal information private...especially if you have managed to cover the internet (facebook, etc.) with info/your image. Even so, family members are never fair game. Pointing out that another's opinion/argument is poor or that their posts are typically boorish seems fair game.

[Rick Lee]

Years ago Wayne used to post in PARF and was pretty middle-of-the-road and level-headed about things. He got relentlessly attacked in one thread, and I was really surprised PARF lasted another day after that. But Wayne just retreated instead of banning the trolls or shutting the whole thing down. I don't know why the trolls don't have better things to do or why they're allowed to schit in otherwise good threads. But if I had my druthers, they'd be gone.

[Por_sha911]

As stated there is nothing inherently wrong with PARF. The only problem with that neighborhood is that most of the time a civil disagreement turns into childish name calling and sub-intellectual comments about a poster that has no relevance to the topic at hand. As also stated, after a few pages in the thread, it is just mud slinging and not worth reading.
If you disagree then you are a poopyhead.

[island911]

P.A.R.F. - do we still need it?

[Superman]

Originally Posted by island911

P.A.R.F. - do we still need it?

Some folks seem to enjoy name-calling, insulting one another's intelligence and declining to consider the abstract, heretical notion that peoples' differences in perspectives might have some rational basis worth considering. These folks vigorously engage in the above-described exchanges in substantial daily volumes. And so, it seems, PARF has a raison d'etre. People seem to enjoy it.

Others prefer more circumspect and respectful exchanges, and OT is good for that. Recently, I fostered a dangerous but successful discussion here regarding who receives, and who pays for, medical services in this country. As it turns out, we have universal medical coverage. The question then becomes.....how do we pay for it. As it turns out, medical insurance companies, pharma companies, medical providers and, as a last resort, the taxpayer....pay for it. The details are largely worked out by the medical insurance and service provider companies. At any rate, that discussion stayed civil. I enjoyed it and learned some stuff. I vote for keeping OT as it is, and letting the PARF folks make PARF into whatever they seem to prefer.

I still like this Pelican community. OT is very productive. I come here, confidently, for advice...and I like what I get.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Superman

Some folks seem to enjoy name-calling, insulting one another's intelligence and declining to consider the abstract, heretical notion that peoples' differences in perspectives might have some rational basis worth considering. These folks vigorously engage in the above-described exchanges in substantial daily volumes. And so, it seems, PARF has a raison d'etre. People seem to enjoy it.

Others prefer more circumspect and respectful exchanges, ...

LOL

And Some People seem to enjoy --in just about every recent post-- how they are ABOVE those horrible other judgey peeps. Some People seem to enjoy wrapping up their distaining for others in a shell of high-brow betterment --as a supposedly more circumspect and respectful in exchanges.

And it's embedded hypocrisy like that which I do enjoy. And quite frankly missed. Keep it up.