WTH - Roofing Contractors/Contracts

[hcoles]

This relates to replacing a 25 year old 31 square shake roof with an asphalt shingle roof. Standard slope 4/12 with a small area under 2/12.
You would think it would be pretty easy to get a roofing contractor to provide a reasonable contract with items including:

I'm telling the contractors that I want an Owens Corning roof system.

- make/model/color of shingles (I provided that)
- make/model of ice and water barrier material and where installed
- make/model of underlayment
- make/model/construction applied to low-slope area
- list of sheet metal to be replaced (valley, rake, eve, skylights, chimney, pipes/vents, etc.)
- gutter profile and material, down spout type
- approximate start/finish date and duration
- payment terms (down payment, progress, final)
- warranty duration of roof and gutter system with who provides
- lien process (e.g. joint check)
- list of subcontractors and license numbers (this is CSLB requirement)

I provide a scale roof diagram including dimensions (for their convenience) and list of items I'm looking for in the contract. Of course they have been getting on the roof to take a look and verify for themselves.

Why can't they or why won't contractors read what I ask for and include it in a contract? Is what I'm asking unreasonable?

I'm not asking for the details because I want to compare prices - I just want to have specified what I'm getting for my $20-$25k. Otherwise the roofer can put on whatever he wants.

One guy showed up - I asked regarding what his contract looked like - he said I just pencil it out on a sheet of paper and held up a piece of binder paper.

I've been going out of my way to be super friendly and available on time.

It must be me. Reminds me of my tire store story if you remember that one.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

You need to solicit bids from better contractors instead of fly-by-night residential hacks. You absolutely can and should dictate the contract terms and if they don’t like it forget them. Find a few specialty roofers that do high end residential and / or commercial work. Avoid the “joe blow” handyman types. There’s a heck of a lot more to being a quality contractor than going out and slapping your name on the side of an F150 and calling yourself a “professional”. Shop around, get referrals and references. Don’t waste your time with small time residential guys that do it as a hobby.

[John Rogers]

When we had our roof redone several years ago I tried calling half a dozen roofing companies and all I got was a recording. On a Sunday morning I happened to see an ad for Home Depot roofers which I knew were contractors of course. So I called the 1-800 number and a nice young lady answered and took down our name, address, etc and said someone would call shortly. Half an hour later we got a call from the fellow in charge and asked when he could come over. I said later Sunday afternoon would be great, and he showed up a 3:00PM. Showed me different samples, what they would do, ETC, ETC. I mentioned we would probably need some wood replaced and he noted the worst case, which it was close to that as we had a double layer of tar paper and stone which was standard in 1960 it seems.

Signed the deal, took then 5 days including wood replacement and it has been great! The man in charge has come back twice to check on how it has held up which is nice.

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by John Rogers

Showed me different samples, what they would do, ETC, ETC. I mentioned we would probably need some wood replaced and he noted the worst case...signed the deal... and it has been great! The man in charge has come back twice to check on how it has held up...

Man, I sure wish this was the norm out there with service providers instead of the exception. I can't even get my friggin' Sunday paper delivered consistently

[wswartzwel]

I had some storm damage last year, and called roofing companies and couldn't get any of them to come give an estimate. I called the local "Lowes" and they had a guy out right away... Gave me an estimate, that matched what my insurance company had told me they would pay. ( I hadn't told Lowes that amount) They replaced my roof with a much nicer roof than my house had originally. first layer had snow seal, and metal edging, new vents. Workers cleaned debris as they worked and they didn't damage any shrubs or flower gardens in the process. I was very impressed.

[SCadaddle]

Sheesh. Not quite 7 years ago I had my 41 square asphalt shingle roof replaced including a complete tear off of the old 3 tab asphalt shingles, new underlayment and new owens corning 3D "Architectural" type asphalt shingles to the tune of $8,000 including complete clean up and haul off of the old stuff.

My homeowners insurance carrier was so impressed with the new roof that they raised my deductible on the roof from $500 to $5,000 but turned right around and gave me a whopping $2 (TWO DOLLAR) discount due to "age of roof"!

[jcommin]

I have a cousin who is going thru same crap. The roof incurred hail damage last year and must be replaced. The insurance company provided a very detailed report and they got a check. The work must be done before June 1st.


Since the entire subdivision was affected by the hail storm, every roofing company has come knocking. My cousin has asked for proof of insurance, references, details on materials, warranty etc. They have seen hand written estimates. I swear every roofing contractor has knocked on their door - like vultures.

Their statement of work looks similar. Ant then there are the neighbors who "got a guy". They are not having fun.

[rwest]

Roofing is one of those low cost of entry businesses, so it attracts all sorts of people who can’t and shouldn’t run a business.

Pretty much just need a truck, ladder, air compressor hand tools and nail guns.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by wswartzwel

?... Gave me an estimate, that matched what my insurance company had told me they would pay. ( I hadn't told Lowes that amount) ...

There's a rate sheet.

All the contractor needs is the sq footage.

[Jim2]

Where’s the picture of the roofer?

Ahhhh, I must be in the wrong thread.

[Tervuren]

Was the person that came out to look at the roof a good looker?

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by rwest

Roofing is one of those low cost of entry businesses, so it attracts all sorts of people who can’t and shouldn’t run a business.

Pretty much just need a truck, ladder, air compressor hand tools and nail guns.

Two young guys roofed my new construction garage. They took turns each carrying two bundles of asphalt shingles on their shoulders up the single story step-ladder.

Job was done start to finish in a little over 1/2 a day. And done well, too.

[Evans, Marv]

There are a lot of flakes working in the construction trades - BTDT. When I was building my house (
I'd worked in various construction jobs as a young guy, but hadn't dealt with the top down end of it), I understood you should get at least three bids on work. I learned most of the time you need a lot more until you find the right person. Don't futz around with guys who won't do it your way. Just say "Thanks a lot", & get on to the next one ASAP.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

There are a lot of flakes working in the construction trades - BTDT. P.

Ain't that the truth, Marv. I had to deal with that crap as a young contractor. These low end people can't schedule a bis ride home. I was expecting them to show up to my job on time and get work done or simply return a phone call. Now, I only use the same sub contractors. It took me a long time to learn to deal with that typical construction guy mentality. I had to do a lot for them such as writing a bid for me and what's to be expected on there and the type of work to be done.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by hcoles

This relates to replacing a 25 year old 31 square shake roof with an asphalt shingle roof. Standard slope 4/12 with a small area under 2/12.
You would think it would be pretty easy to get a roofing contractor to provide a reasonable contract with items including:

I'm telling the contractors that I want an Owens Corning roof system.

- make/model/color of shingles (I provided that)
- make/model of ice and water barrier material and where installed
- make/model of underlayment
- make/model/construction applied to low-slope area
- list of sheet metal to be replaced (valley, rake, eve, skylights, chimney, pipes/vents, etc.)
- gutter profile and material, down spout type
- approximate start/finish date and duration
- payment terms (down payment, progress, final)
- warranty duration of roof and gutter system with who provides
- lien process (e.g. joint check)
- list of subcontractors and license numbers (this is CSLB requirement)

I provide a scale roof diagram including dimensions (for their convenience) and list of items I'm looking for in the contract. Of course they have been getting on the roof to take a look and verify for themselves.

Why can't they or why won't contractors read what I ask for and include it in a contract? Is what I'm asking unreasonable?

I'm not asking for the details because I want to compare prices - I just want to have specified what I'm getting for my $20-$25k. Otherwise the roofer can put on whatever he wants.

One guy showed up - I asked regarding what his contract looked like - he said I just pencil it out on a sheet of paper and held up a piece of binder paper.

I've been going out of my way to be super friendly and available on time.

It must be me. Reminds me of my tire store story if you remember that one.

Don't expect a small time contractor to write a specific and detail bid. It just not going to happen.

Roofers are usually not the sharpest tool in the drawer. I found them to be the hardest to deal with over all. After that, its plumbers.

[Evans, Marv]

Truthfully it seems that lots of them just don't want to work. I already had the oak flooring for my house. It was quarter sawn, red oak plank, 1 1/2 x 3/4. I talked to two that didn't even show up, three more who said, "Gee, I usually don't put down anything less than 4 (or 6?) in. plank and wanted a lot more money because it "was a lot more work." I finally round a guy who said, "No problem, we just completed a gym floor last week with that dimension stuff." He was also reasonably priced and sent a good crew over to do the job. But it took going through maybe six flooring guys to get to the good one. I can understand why guys who do building for a living use the same group of subs after a while.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

Truthfully it seems that lots of them just don't want to work. I already had the oak flooring for my house. It was quarter sawn, red oak plank, 1 1/2 x 3/4. I talked to two that didn't even show up, three more who said, "Gee, I usually don't put down anything less than 4 (or 6?) in. plank and wanted a lot more money because it "was a lot more work." I finally round a guy who said, "No problem, we just completed a gym floor last week with that dimension stuff." He was also reasonably priced and sent a good crew over to do the job. But it took going through maybe six flooring guys to get to the good one. I can understand why guys who do building for a living use the same group of subs after a while.

Lots of these guys know all they are doing is bidding on jobs and they also know that home owners usually have selected a contractor they like, but are only look at the other bids for pricing comparison. They drive all over town (this is a big place and can take two hours to get across, not to mention the fuel cost) just to spend an hour yapping only to get stuck with fruitless paper work(most people want extensive) and give their jobs away. They bid 10, they may get one. So, in their minds, they are better off finishing the current job and move on to the next when it becomes available. Some of these guys can't see 10' in front of them, forget months or the future, and are not very good business folks. Its a tough gig

[DanielDudley]

Roofers don't roof because they like doing paperwork. They just roof. Most will buy the materials and make a markup on it, and many won't bid a job if they think 10 other guys are also bidding.

Ask your neighbors who did their roofs, and call one of those guys. Point out they were recommended, and ask what it will cost. Roofers know how to roof, you don't have to tell a good roofer how to do his job. Yes, you get to pick the roofing.

Every contractor loves referrals. It makes them feel like they have an in. Don't under any circumstances mention other contractors. It is the kiss of death.

[recycled sixtie]

Our last set of roofers were a nightmare. We just had a double garage to do. The roofers would arrive at 1 pm because one admitted to like sleeping in. The second day they were finished roofing so late they had to use a cellphone flashlight. The two eavestrough guys were good till one quit half way through. I helped the remaining guy finish the job!

I use to get 15 year shingles and now I get 30 year. Time seems to fly.....

[fintstone]

I have never been able to find skilled contractors for anything where I live now. Even the less skilled ones that you have to train in the job show up late if at all and if you can get a bid, it is often close to 10 times what it should be. You can hire a handyman pretty reasonably here...but they usually either lack in skills, ambition, or physical ability (old). A small ranch...you can get roofed properly and quickly. Anything large or complex is nigh impossible.