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Quote:
Originally Posted by svandamme View Post
that's a long way down, but they've hauled stuff up from that deep before... Howard Hughes had a rig for that
Yep, glomar explorer. It could go more than 3 miles deep but it broke trying to lift the ruskey sub and broke it in three.
Old 03-06-2018, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon B View Post
The Grumman F4F-3 Wildcat F-5 has been identified as the plane flown by Albert "Scoop" Vorse Jr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_O._Vorse_Jr.

Identified by whom? Vorse didn't have his fourth kill until he was with VF-6 at Guadalcanal.
Old 03-06-2018, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by svandamme View Post
Then that confirms VF-2 as well
Pilots, crew and 19 Wildcats were transferred from VF-3 to VF-2 during March of 1942. That explains why the Felix the cat logo is seen on a VF-2 aircraft. The four flags are puzzling, as there wasn't a VF-2 pilot with that number of victories. The only one close was Lt. Noel Gayler with three victories (two solo, two shared), but did have claims on May 8th which brought him to five. He's the likely pilot as he was with the Lex when it went down.
Old 03-06-2018, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T308 View Post
Identified by whom? Vorse didn't have his fourth kill until he was with VF-6 at Guadalcanal.
It's been claimed or discussed on various internet sites, although of course that doesn't necessarily confirm it.
It's now also noted as Vorse's plane on Wikipedia, on the TBD Devastator page under Surviving Aircraft.

That Wildcat was very likely flown by more than one pilot. Those flags did not necessarily represent the pilot operating it at Coral Sea.
During the battle, between CAP and escort assignments, pilots were very likely flying any plane that was ready and available.

Those flags probably represent actions that occurred prior to the Coral Sea engagement.
It's also interesting to note that the digit in F-5 has been painted over, so the plane might have been re-assigned at some point.
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Old 03-06-2018, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon B View Post
It's been claimed or discussed on various internet sites, although of course that doesn't necessarily confirm it.
It's now also noted as Vorse's plane on Wikipedia, on the TBD Devastator page under Surviving Aircraft.

That Wildcat was very likely flown by more than one pilot. Those flags did not necessarily represent the pilot operating it at Coral Sea.
During the battle, between CAP and escort assignments, pilots were very likely flying any plane that was ready and available.

Those flags probably represent actions that occurred prior to the Coral Sea engagement.
It's also interesting to note that the digit in F-5 has been painted over, so the plane might have been re-assigned at some point.
The wikipedia entry is pure speculation.

People are using the April assignments and the Lundstrom book to point to Vorse as the pilot of F-5, but were changes before the Coral Sea battle. I'm going with Gaylor as "GA" and "R" are visible under the crud and his a/c was on deck when the ship went down. As XO of Fighting 2 he would have had his "own" aircraft and with his bombing sorte on the Lae raid in February he would have sported a bomb on his kill board alongside his air victories. There wasn't a lot of plane swapping as the fighters were deployed by division and the same four pilots flew together. VF-2 had 21 aircraft and 22 pilots.

Old 03-06-2018, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by T308 View Post
There wasn't a lot of plane swapping as the fighters were deployed by division and the same four pilots flew together. VF-2 had 21 aircraft and 22 pilots.
You make a good case for Gayler, and you might be correct. I was only relating what was being discussed elsewhere.
It's said that Vorse ended up landing on the Yorktown, and that he flew more than one Wildcat that day.

There is general speculation that after their initial assignments, pilots at Coral Sea were being sent back up in any plane that was fueled, serviced, re-armed, spotted on deck and ready to go.
Do you know otherwise, that they only flew their personally assigned aircraft, and waited, during a battle, for those aircraft to be serviced, re-armed and re-spotted on deck?
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Old 03-06-2018, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon B View Post
It's now also noted as Vorse's plane on Wikipedia, on the TBD Devastator page under Surviving Aircraft.
Update on Wikipedia... Vorse's name has now been removed from the Douglas TBD Devastator page, in regard to the Lexington Wildcat.
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:11 AM
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More discussion from yesterday evening, with better images.
Also an image of the debris field, on the next page of a 7-page thread...

Warbird Information Exchange • View topic - USS Lexington (CV-2) wreck found .. 4 March 2018 [revised]
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon B View Post
You make a good case for Gayler, and you might be correct. I was only relating what was being discussed elsewhere.
It's said that Vorse ended up landing on the Yorktown, and that he flew more than one Wildcat that day.

There is general speculation that after their initial assignments, pilots at Coral Sea were being sent back up in any plane that was fueled, serviced, re-armed, spotted on deck and ready to go.
Do you know otherwise, that they only flew their personally assigned aircraft, and waited, during a battle, for those aircraft to be serviced, re-armed and re-spotted on deck?
Looking at surviving pilot logbooks for the period you'll see even in the heat of combat the fighter pilots stayed with the same a/c. The example below is from a pilot at Midway. The VF tactical structure usually assigned two six a/c divisions for rotating CAP duty and two 6 a/c divisions for escort duties. This pilot flew four CAP missions and one intercept and was in the same a/c each time. Later in the war when there were more pilots than a/c assigned to the VFs you see much more variation in the individual a/c flown. If you look at Marine log books, they almost never flew the same a/c.
Old 03-07-2018, 07:32 PM
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Very interesting, thanks for posting this.
The logbook appears to be from a Yorktown pilot (?), who landed on the Enterprise on June 4th, and the Hornet on June 5th.

"Fight off Jap Torpedo Planes- Got 1"
"CAP over Abandoned York Land on Enterp"
"CAP/ Land on Hornet"

Quote:
Originally Posted by T308 View Post
If you look at Marine log books, they almost never flew the same a/c.
I've heard this was true of Marines pilots on Guadalcanal.

Here is an image of the Lexington debris field...
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:54 PM
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It's great when an interesting post like this comes up here on Pelican, and we get the benifit of all the amazing knowledge assembled here. Thanks for the discussion guys!

Cheers Richard
Old 03-08-2018, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon B View Post
More discussion from yesterday evening, with better images.
Also an image of the debris field, on the next page of a 7-page thread...

Warbird Information Exchange € View topic - USS Lexington (CV-2) wreck found .. 4 March 2018 [revised]
That link was great.

Now, for a really unremarkable Six Degrees of Separation, I landed on the next USS Lexington, CVT-16. commissioned in the 1942.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Lexington_%28CV-16%29



Not as exciting as the jet stuff but between cycles I took a tour below decks. Old school Navy.
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Last edited by Seahawk; 03-08-2018 at 12:24 PM..
Old 03-08-2018, 12:18 PM
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Very impressive, Paul.
If I only had my life choices to make over again...

The Essex-class Lexington had a tremendous service history, including major roles in the WWII battles of the Philippine Sea and Leyte Gulf.
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Old 03-08-2018, 05:15 PM
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