Porsche S or BMW M3

[jdlowery]

So, I decided to sell both of my current vehicles. The Acura MDX and the Lexus IS350. The MDX is being replaced with a new F-150 (2 weeks before delivery). The question is, what will replace the IS350? I want something fun that I can track and use as a commuter when I'm not on one of my motorcycles. I'm thinking about either a Porsche S or a M3. Neither one of these will be new but I'm sure I can find a low mileage single owner car.

There are way too many choices between the S and the M3. Im trying to narrow my search a little. The models I'm considering for the S are 997.1, 997.2, 991.1 and 991.2. Price is important but are there any models from those above that you would eliminate and why?

For the M3 I'm considering E46, E90 and F80. Again, price is important but which of these would you eliminate and why? I like the E90 because of the V8 but it's also the heaviest of the three.

Once I decide on the car, my goal is to find the lowest mileage best kept single owner car available. My son says Porsche and I'm leaning that way also. At the moment I'm searching Autotrader. I will need to sell my two cars before I make the purchase of the P-car or the M3. Any input and feedback would be great.

[KNS]

I would eliminate the 991 and F80 because they are the most overly complicated. They also still have quite a bit of depreciation ahead of them.

A Porsche mechanic I know stated the 991 is not maintenance/service friendly either.

I have a 2008 E92 M3, and it’s one of my all-time favorite cars. The V8 engine is a work of art, and revs to 8250 rpm. It’s the last gasp of normal aspiration before we descend into an eternity of low-revving turbos. I’ve ridden in and driven the F80, and, though fast, it just doesn’t have the same magic under the hood.

The rest of the car is also great—I have the DCT and love it.

Yes, it’s a big heavy car, but it drives much smaller and lighter than it is. It’s an amazing high-speed cruiser, but is also very agile. I haven’t taken mine to the track yet, but will this season.

Good low mileage E9x M3s are still out there, as the car was built through 2013, but the prices are already creeping up for good ones. The cars have had issues with rod bearings, though the fix has been done on many cars (mine included). Other than that, there are some other troublesome components, but there is a strong support network to provide fixes.

The 997 is great too, but they have their own engine issues up until the 997.2. And you’ll pay more for a comparably aged car than the M3. For me, the 991 would be too anodyne and too large for what is effectively a 2-seat cruiser.

My thoughts. Good luck!

[Ferraripete]

haveyou considered the new alfa romeo quadrifoglio? I got one back in November and must say it is simply the best and most insane car I have ever owned. amazing machine and the performance is shattering!!! I was looking at a vantage gt 6 speed but after seeing and driving the alfa...the decision was...no decision.

just a thought. good luck!!

[jdlowery]

Originally Posted by KNS

I would eliminate the 991 and F80 because they are the most overly complicated. They also still have quite a bit of depreciation ahead of them.

A Porsche mechanic I know stated the 991 is not maintenance/service friendly either.

Those are good points Kurt. Not service friendly means more labor time.

[speeder]

I was under the impression that the V-8 motor in the e90 M3 was lighter than the 6-cylinder it replaced(?).

[jdlowery]

Originally Posted by madcorgi

I have a 2008 E92 M3, and it’s one of my all-time favorite cars. The V8 engine is a work of art, and revs to 8250 rpm. It’s the last gasp of normal aspiration before we descend into an eternity of low-revving turbos. I’ve ridden in and driven the F80, and, though fast, it just doesn’t have the same magic under the hood.

The rest of the car is also great—I have the DCT and love it.

Yes, it’s a big heavy car, but it drives much smaller and lighter than it is. It’s an amazing high-speed cruiser, but is also very agile. I haven’t taken mine to the track yet, but will this season.

Good low mileage E9x M3s are still out there, as the car was built through 2013, but the prices are already creeping up for good ones. The cars have had issues with rod bearings, though the fix has been done on many cars (mine included). Other than that, there are some other troublesome components, but there is a strong support network to provide fixes.

The 997 is great too, but they have their own engine issues up until the 997.2. And you’ll pay more for a comparably aged car than the M3. For me, the 991 would be too anodyne and too large for what is effectively a 2-seat cruiser.

My thoughts. Good luck!

Thanks for the input. When I test drove the E90 new in 2007 I loved it. I agree the 991 may not be exactly what I want.

[jdlowery]

Originally Posted by speeder

I was under the impression that the V-8 motor in the e90 M3 was lighter than the 6-cylinder it replaced(?).

I'm not sure if that is true but the overall car weight of the E90 is greater than the E46.

[jdlowery]

Originally Posted by Ferraripete

haveyou considered the new alfa romeo quadrifoglio? I got one back in November and must say it is simply the best and most insane car I have ever owned. amazing machine and the performance is shattering!!! I was looking at a vantage gt 6 speed but after seeing and driving the alfa...the decision was...no decision.

just a thought. good luck!!

Looks like a fun car but not what I had in mind. Also looking for a pre-owned car. Like I mentioned before my new F-150 will arrive in two weeks.

[ZOO]

My E46 M3 is the best all around car I've ever owned. It is magnificent on the track, although it is now "slow" compared to most new track toys. 333 horses ain't what they used to be .

The only knock I hear against the E90 M3 is track fuel mileage.

[onewhippedpuppy]

All great options, first priority should be to drive as many as possible.

My biggest knock on the BMW would be reliability. All of the models listed above have some big potentially costly issues ahead of them. I haven't driven an F80 M3, but it's frequently knocked for being too big, heavy, synthetic, and luxury oriented.

The 997.1 does have a slight risk associated with the IMS, but they are otherwise great cars. I think the 997.2 is a future classic, as it has the 9A1 engine without an IMS but is normally aspirated and nicely styled. The 991 is a bigger car and is not maintenance friendly, watch the video online about having to pull the rear bumper cover to change the air filter. Your budget would also definitely include a 996 Turbo or potentially a 997.1 Turbo, have you considered those? The extra maintenance cost is negligible and they have the legendary Mezger motor, the 996 models are already starting to creep upwards in value. Having owned a number of 997s and a 996 TT, I would go with the TT all day long.

For other options, have you considered a C63 AMG (normally aspirated) or Audi RS4? The C63 is automatic only but it's an epic engine, one of the best I've experienced. Also a very nice and well finished car, just a silly amount of fun. One of the few cars I really miss. The RS4 is manual transmission and also epic, it's frequently called a future classic and the values have definitely bottomed out. It's one on my short list. The newer S4 with a manual transmission and the sport differential are also supposed to be a blast, a lot of comparison tests have considered them to be more fun than the M3.

[Nickshu]

IMS is not really a big deal at this point IMO. At this age point any M96/97 has had the IMS done already, or it needs a clutch anyway so you put in the IMS solution when you do the clutch, drive it, and forget about it. In reality all the "integrated sump" water cooled 911 motors have various modes of failure. Porsche still seems to be trying to figure out the design, even today.

That said I've been beating the crud out of my M96 on the track for over a year now. I run an IMS solution and a Deep sump, running on slicks with alot of suspension work. Have had no issues.

If I were in the market for a 911 I would consider pony-ing up the $$$ for a Mezger engine (GT3 or turbo), GT3 would be my preferred.

[David]

I used to have a 997.1 and the ex-wife had an e46 and e90. My vote is for a 991.1 (or a 981)

[onewhippedpuppy]

I didn’t suggest a GT3 only because they are getting really expensive, even for a 996. But yes that would be an awesome option.

Originally Posted by speeder

I was under the impression that the V-8 motor in the e90 M3 was lighter than the 6-cylinder it replaced(?).

I have read that several places.

[Deschodt]

People have covered most things... E46 subframe and engine issues, E90 has engine issues as well, overall I'm straying from BMW for less than stellar reliability of late, but still nice cars...

I'll just post to object to "991 maintenance issues"... No hearsay, or "my mechanic said", I've owned one for 2 years now, used... It's one of the easiest cars to work on that I've owned... Mostly because you don't have to do all that much ! ;-) It's an IMS free solid engine and car, with more rear room and shoulder room than older models, and great stable platform that turns in sharper than a 997 and is also not overpriced in the used market like a 997.2 (good effing luck finding that under 50K). I priced and drove both and the 997 feels like a creaky donkey cart after the 991. My words, feel free to disagree but only after driving one, not from reading someone's post ;-) I can do an oil change in 15 minutes. Sure, you must pull a fan assembly off to do so, but the degree of difficulty and time involved is lesser than tying shoelaces. Most importantly to me they fixed the damn rear tire noise issue, it's much nicer as a commuter and still tons of fun when you track it...

Yeah, some folks fear pulling the rear bumper for an air filter change, once every many thousands of miles. I have 2 left hands and I did it, it is super easy... Overall aside from issues with defective change over valves (COV) and *some* warping door panels (courtesy repair, both of them) the 991 has been the most solid and reliable 911 I've owned - mechanically speaking - since my 911SC (the cockroach)... Fact. Also has more modern toys in it, and more room... and some are still under warranty. Anyway, just clarifying that, buy what makes you happy, really...

I vote 991.1 for NA experience, 991.2 for turbo torque.. Both "base" if you must, it's enough...

[jdlowery]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

IMS is not really a big deal at this point IMO. At this age point any M96/97 has had the IMS done already, or it needs a clutch anyway so you put in the IMS solution when you do the clutch, drive it, and forget about it. In reality all the "integrated sump" water cooled 911 motors have various modes of failure. Porsche still seems to be trying to figure out the design, even today.

That said I've been beating the crud out of my M96 on the track for over a year now. I run an IMS solution and a Deep sump, running on slicks with alot of suspension work. Have had no issues.

If I were in the market for a 911 I would consider pony-ing up the $$$ for a Mezger engine (GT3 or turbo), GT3 would be my preferred.

The GT3 or Turbo sounds like a good solution but I don't want to spend that kind of cash.

[speeder]

I'd buy a 991.1 over a 997.2 any day of the week, unless the 997 was priced attractively. The comments from an actual user sort of cancel-out the peanut gallery.

I'm going to start another thread about it but it's hard to research reliability and user experience on forums like this. Unfortunately, it's the only forum I use.

[Nickshu]

Originally Posted by jdlowery

The GT3 or Turbo sounds like a good solution but I don't want to spend that kind of cash.

I'm thinking your NA 991 options are going to be in a similar price range as some of your GT3 and Turbo options. Your 997.2 and 991 GT3 and turbos are out of reach for sure. If an NA 991 really is in the running for you price-wise then A 997.1 GT3 could be had for about the same money, maybe less. I see several for sale in the $80K range with a little Google-Fu, most with under 30K miles.

[onewhippedpuppy]

If you are looking at a 991 or 997.2 then you can afford a 996TT and potentially a 997TT.