I think a lot of you are in very good shape..and as thus, have a lower than normal training HR. Most folks will not get to where they can/will ever be doing marathons or 8 hr races. For most middle age guys, a 30 minute workout.....with an occasional hour here and there is likely it (and probably better than 95% of America).

As far as the Talk Test:

If you can talk normal increase intensity.

If you can get a word out but have to take a deep breath between those words you are probably at a good speed.

If you can't get a word out because you are too winded, slow down.

Listening to your body is an ultimate indicator to your intensity. Does it hurt? Slow down or stop. Do you finish 30 minutes and feel like you did no work? Increase speed.

By the way: 47 is not old. Good on you for setting a goal to start working on your health.

I started cycling again around my 50th birthday after years of life getting in the way

Although I was always active, I pretty much started out where you are at

Two big things I learned:
1) doing something smaller consistently every day provides better results than doing something bigger a few days a week
2) out of shape leg muscles drive higher heart rates. Even if your cardio is great, weak muscles will put more demands on that system. Doing things consistently will strengthen those muscles and over time your heart rate will be less for the same pace

A few years later I started this post, which eventually lead to all sorts of measuring (and great support from the group here)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/912909-cycling-training-advice-2-x-century.html

I think that the same applies to running.
Keep at it, you are young

Heart rate monitors: wahoo and Bontrager work really well. Polar and Garmin have never worked well for me.
Don’t worry about having a high max HR. Makes no difference. If you really want to know what’s going on do a VO2 max test. I ride with guys who’s mad HR is 20 beats PM lower than mine and they are faster than me.
I agree with most of your training below 80%.

I love it, old fashion training, ride until you puke (I do it all the time). I like that and have done it for a long time. After some time, you know your body and train according to that. Since I am no longer racing, I don't care for the advantages of a HRM but use it for giggles and have some type of base line. 90% of the time, I do not have a HRM on. I like to get a wrist watch type just to have something to look at when I climb. I know they are not accurate, but accurate enough for my needs.

Heart rate stroke volume is individual even among very fit people. I read that in tour de france riders the resting pulse range was from "less than 40" to 75. If someone can complete the tour they among the most fit people on the planet.

If your pulse drops for the same work you are more aerobically fit, but you can't compare fitness between people with heart rate.

Is great to do 30 minute of exercise a day but peak aerobic gain requires workouts of 2 hours or more. If you keep the effort low you will be able to recover and will only limited by time.

When I started out I was very time limited so stuck with short high intensity rides (45-60 minute workouts). I became fit in some sense, completing the short rides quickly and became familier with physical limits, but I also hit a wall and stopped improving.

High volume lower intensity rides produced dramatically better fitness for me and is more sustainable too.

Similar story here as well. When I was racing (late 20's) bicycles I could push my HR over 200. One memorable coast ride ended with me and buddy pulling the front on the climb up Torrey Pines on PCH. It's only 5% or so and ~ 2 miles. We stayed on the big ring all the way and increased our speed the higher we got. I saw 208 on my old Polar monitor with chest strap. Total carnage behind us ;).

However I did rely on my HR monitor for daily training. My HR (60-80%) and time. I never paid much attention to distance and even less on speed. Some days my HR would be high just spinning on a coffee ride or something similar - I knew then I was tired and needed to pack it in.

The thing with running is building the supporting systems. Your muscles will improve quickly and cardio will follow suit. Runners are tempted to start increasing distance/time to quickly and are at high risk of injury to bones and supporting soft stuff.

[QUOTE=crb07;10006672]Heart rate monitors: wahoo and Bontrager work really well. Polar and Garmin have never worked well for me.

I agree.



The chest hr strap combined with my garmin handheld gps gave me super high readings of 200 to 220 . I was experiencing this while hiking up mountains. The readings were erroneous and switched to a fitbit which gave me more realistic readings. So while using the chest strap I cut back because of the high readings so super accurate hr readings are a must.

I used to be very conscious of my heart rate. Then I met a coach and she changed how I do things.

First I run at whatever pace I can keep somewhat of a conversation. About 30min to 1 hour. It would feel very slow. Then do this for a month or two. Then throw in a minute or two at a higher speed then 5-10 min. Now my base speed has picked up. And I’m throwing in a minute or two even faster. This can take months or years. But it’s safe for your heart and legs. I listen to music. Have a samsung watch with music on it. Blue tooth to a set of headphones. So the phone gets left at home. Can’t stand carrying that brick. Oh if I run on the treadmill I put it on 1 degree up. Supposed to better replicate the road. It sure works out your calf’s.

Back in the 1970's and 1980's did quite a bit of running and even won the first 5K that was run on the island of Diego Garcia. I then started bicycle racing and eventually did some triathlons but I could not swim well. At any rate we did not have the great electronics available today except for a watch I bought in Singapore that read heart rate pretty well. I also bought a very early version of those BP/pulse readers available today. I did several things as follows.
- While at my doctors I had both devices checked against the machines in the office to get an idea of how accurate they were. The watch was amazing as to pulse but the BP reader was iffy.
- I would work at different levels each day of the week weather running or cycling.
- At least twice a week I would sprint so hard on the bike or running so that I would see stars and things would get hazy or I would throw up.
- I checked my pulse immediately when waking and back then it was about 40 to 42 if I was feeling good and not sick. If it was over 50 I would take a day off.
- Finally as silly as it sounds I found a PC program that printed out your biorhythm chart on the recommendation of my wife. I never really gave it much thought until after two pretty bad crashes in bike races, one at Fiesta Island San Diego and the other in 1984 at Manhattan Beach in a criterium. In both bad wrecks a pedal had gotten stuffed in my front wheel and my 3 biorhythms were all just over the top and going down so I became a believer.

I am learning by reading, but I have an unshakable bias.

Everyone I know that pays attention to such stuff and has all the fancy monitoring watches and is able to tell me how many steps they took today is a fat lard arse.

I guess the fancy watch or cell phone app convinces them they aren't as fat and lazy as they look.

I don't count calories either.

Low tech is the way to go to get started, hi-tech is for refinement.

Please feel free to correct me.

I have a kitchen timer, it goes beep when I have an hour of exercise in, and that works for me.

I've got a good one (a more expensive arm cuff style Omron). I've compared what it reports to a similar electronic one at the Drs office and also to what my chest strap HRM says. The HRM also agrees pretty closely with the treadmill. I think I'm getting decent readings. Relaxed BP for me the past few days has been 111/71, 103/73, 123/79, 122/80, 119/76, and those are all the avg of 3 times. I think I'm pretty good.

I am pretty flexible, but I go through spurts of stretching and don't do it consistently. Because my calves are taking a beating, I have been stretching them. I have been doing the two styles of stretch that you mentioned and the one that gets me the most is the bent knee. I've read a couple of threads about the guys that have snapped their achilles and that scares the crap out of me.
I've read a bunch of similar stuff recently. I do try to really concentrate on smooth, deep breathing while I'm running. I've been assuming that if you can breath better, then you can perform better, and if you get to the place where you're panting, you're over doing it. I don't have anything to base that on other than gut instinct. Sort of old school, work out based on how you feel sort of thing.

No, I think I'm feeling pretty good at the end of the workout. I don't feel like I could go another 10, but I don't feel too bad either. And usually within 5-10 mins, I'm feeling pretty good.

Yeah, not old, just older. I'm not in great shape but probably above avg, and at least I'm not pear shaped like the rest of America. I've read something similar to the test that you mention, now I just need to do it.

I've exercised here and there over the years. In the past 5 years or so, the missus has gotten interested in it too, which is great because between the two of us, we've managed to stick with it pretty well. She had gotten the idea to do a Tough Mudder a couple of years ago. I'm all for it but neither of us is remotely ready for that. I told her that for a first goal, we should have something a bit more easily attainable. She found this run, Beat The Blerch - Beat The Blerch is a 5K, 10K, half marathon, and full marathon inspired by this comic about running. Organized by The Oatmeal, these races are a way for you to figuratively (and literally) Beat The Blerch., in Seattle that tickled her fancy. I've wanted to take her to Seattle for many years and a flat straight run seems like a better starting point than an obstacle course. I was, fortunately, able to talk her down from a half marathon to a 10k. Now that she's been running for almost 9 weeks, I think she's seeing the sense in that, especially since she's never been a runner. She's hoping to get in the next few weeks where she can do 5k at a 10min mile pace. I'm very happy for both of us to train for this.

I have never done that. I guess I'm just not that competitive. When I feel like crap, I reign it back in.
For me, it is more about curiosity than it will be an actual tool. I wore it all day at work the other day and tracked my HR throughout my work day. I wore it to sleep the other night to see what that showed. I'll wear it while I work out just to see, but it probably won't guide my workouts a ton.

One interesting thing that I've seen mentioned a few times is that if you track your resting heart rate first thing in the morning when you wake up before you get out of bed, you'll notice that it'll be higher in the mornings for 2 days before you get sick. I think someone even posted that on the board once.
[QUOTE=recycled sixtie;10006794] Interesting. Everything that I've seen indicates that the electronic chest-strap style (vs optical, wrist strap style) is normally the most accurate, but then everyone is different. I've confirmed mine to several different sources. It seems pretty accurate.
Interesting. Yeah, I've been thinking about and doing the slight incline thing. To me the treadmill isn't quite as hard because you don't have to propel yourself forward because the ground is rushing beneath your feet. I assumed the same thing, by giving it a slight incline you're having to push forward enough to keep yourself from going backwards/down the hill. I would have assumed it was more like 2°, but I'll take her word for it. Yeah, I definitely listen to music while I run. That helps keep me going.
I definitely don't disagree that if you aren't a nitwit (which you aren't) that you don't need any of the gizmos. But, if the gizmos, help some folks or keep them motivated, then I'm all for anything that makes them do something, anything besides sit on their rear. For me, the HRM was more because I love to see the stats on everything. I used to have a weather station before I moved into an apt. I've always put gauges in almost every car I've had if it didn't already have them, etc....

This is the App, by Active, not Zenlabs
https://www.active.com/mobile/couch-to-5k-app
This is the Icon for the app
https://www.active.com/assets/mobile...k-app-icon.png
It sounds like the Zenlabs is probably similar, but I think it's 8 weeks instead of 9 like the one that we are using.

Both the missus and I liked it. If it was up to me, I may have arranged some weeks a little differently, but I'm glad that I have had it. We did follow it's direction. I did skip a day towards the beginning to do a little catch up with the missus that started over a week before me. I think the missus may have repeated a day or two in the middle as well.

I'm a bit over 6'1" with a 35" inseam, so fairly tall and long legged and have always been a runner, so my times/speeds may not work for you. At the beginning, I started walking at 3.8mph, but then I usually walk faster than everyone else when I'm with other people. I would think that anywhere from 2.5 - 4mph would be a good speed for the 5 min warm up walk.

For the running, it's really up to you and how you feel. I started running at 8.6mph which is a 7min mile and probably hauling butt for most folks, but then that was mostly just for anywhere from 1 min intervals up until I was running 5 min intervals. Once I got over 5 mins, I had to slow down some. Now I'm doing most of my steady state long runs at 7.1 which is an 8.5 min mile and still probably pretty fast. Today I was pooped and dropped down to 6.1 which is a 10 min mile. If I had to recommend a good starting pace to someone sight-unseen, I'd probably say anything between 4.8 and 6.5mph would be a good place to start. If you're tall with long legs or have a running history and know you were pretty fast, then you may be able to go faster.

My wife found a schedule online in one place. I think it's for a different app, but it's really close. I think they may have some of the walking intervals wrong in the weeks 4-6 or something like that.

Since this involves 3 days per week, at some point you're going to get 2 days of rest. We tried to do this Mon, Wed and Fri most weeks. What this means is that on Mon, we were really fresh and the run seemed easy and on Fri, we were not 100% recovered from the rest of the week, so it was harder. On week 4 or 5, you start the first day doing 3 five minute runs, then the second day is 2 eight minute runs and then the last day is a 20 minute run. That 20 mins was tough. Personally, I'd have preferred to have done that week backwards, starting with the 20, then 2x8 and finally 3x5 or maybe 3x5, 2x8 then 15 on the last day. But, we managed to get it done the way it was. We may have been pushing too hard throughout. My wife tends to do that.

The cool down walk at the end, since the treadmill that I've been using will tell you your heart rate, I've started the cool down at 3.8, and then gradually decreased the speed to try to gradually decrease my heart rate. I've been trying to make sure that by the end of the 5 mins, I've dropped from my peak of 165-175 down to 115-120 or so.

I've since found this site. It sounds pretty good, but there isn't an app.
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/50933/5K-Novice-Training-Program

I ran Mon and felt great. Yesterday, I went down and ran to "calibrate" my HRM (it's got a built in accelerometer) so it's supposed to be able to estimate your pace and distance on a treadmill. The calibration program has you run 2 mins slow, 2 mins medium and 2 mins fast. I did that. My calves were more sore than usual today, so they were burning pretty quick. I dropped the speed way down to a 10 min mile pace and still ended up taking a couple of 1 min walking breaks towards the end. I'm glad that I didn't push too hard. Hopefully, I'll be recovered and be back up and ready to go for Friday.

All the high tech in the world will not do the exercise for you. That said, a lot of folks are motivated, even nagged, by technology. I get on my scale every morning and it automatically appears on my tracking ap...along with how long I slept, how many steps I took, how many times I exercised (per heart rate) and how hard, what my current and resting heart rate are and are trending, etc. It is pretty obvious if my weight is trending up or if my diet is working. It is pretty easy for a lot of folks to tell themselves that they are not gaining...just have a natural Dad bod. Personally, before I wore a tracker, i did not realize how sedentary i had become...and now walk/run a lot of places where I would have taken mass transit (and get there faster and for free).

You should not run that hard. I'd keep it at 150 or less. Speed is not your friend here coming off the couch. With that intensity, you risk injury, soft tissue stuff. I would see that you average 130.

Your max heart rate should not be reached unless you are racing.

Last but not least, go to a doc and get a heart exam ASAP. Especially stressing your system at 170 bpm! A basic EKG at a minimum. You would not be the first mid aged guy getting back into exercising falling over dead due to a bad ticker (heart disease, previous undetected events or even birth defect / hereditary issues that surface).

Last but not least, your recovery heart rate after stopping will tell you a lot about your fitness level.

Take it easy - you want to do this for the long run! You will have many more miles to run.

G

I was tested about 3-4 years ago. My doc sent me to a cardiologist, and I did a stress test and they did a sonogram or something to look at my heart/valves. I've been exercising off and on since then. I believe I should be OK. I will (probably) try to ramp it down a bit.

I'll have to check into the recovery. I watch it, but I haven't found/gone through a recovery protocol to see how things are. I'll try to find one with some guidelines.

I found the data supplied by a heart rate monitor to be very motivating initially. I could not only feel myself getting better but I could quantify it. It was also very helpful in the latter stages of training. We’re all different. What works for some doesn’t work for all.

That's good to hear. An in-depth test like that is ideal. I'd still do an annual checkup at your GP with a basic EKG.

If you research recovery heart rate you will see what is considered normal. Some running watches actually do this measurement for you. It starts as soon as you stop your workout.

Another few unsolicited pointers:
- Get outside, don't run on a treadmill. It is too rigid in speed and surface. It will promote injuries and take away the natural throttling / regulation your body will do. Go for 1 or 2 runs a week outside and just treat it like a fast walk. Talk, enjoy the air and don't look at your speed or heart rate.
- Make sure you work on your form. You want high cadence and don't heel strike. Good Form Running is a good program. Below a quick overview video.
- Get good shoes. Go to the local running shoe store and get fitted. Change shoes often, every 300 miles or less, especially if you are a heavier guy.
- Listen to your body. Any aches beyond muscle soreness, STOP until the ache is gone. Specifically pay attention to your arches, achilles, shin splints, knees. Once you have a chronic injury you may be done running.
- Generally, take it easy and make this a life long activity. Don't race.

G

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pBLlmOw3oeU" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I figure two pages in is a good time for a hijack.

I monitor my heart rate while on a stationary bike. I don't know how to interpret this so maybe the Docs can chime in. I really have to hump in order to get my heart rate up to a good cardio benefit level. For my age 130bpm is good but its a lot of work to get it there. Is that good or bad?