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look 171 05-03-2018 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mreid (Post 10023798)
Wow, what a bunch of cynical, negative and blatantly wrong comments.

First, Starbucks encourages people to come in and hang out. It is company policy.

Second, go into any Starbucks and look around. There are always people on their computers with no drinks on the table and I’ve seen people walk into many Starbucks and sit down without ordering and without being hassled.

Third, if you don’t know where Rittenhouse Square is or more importantly what it is, then your comments are off base. It is one of the gems of Philadelphia (frankly, it’s Philly so consider that point). Some of the most exclusive and high priced homes in Philly are in this area.

These two were treated this way simply for being two black men in the wrong neighborhood. If you don’t get that, you need to get out of your white neighborhood and wake up to the double standard and profiling of minorities that still exists in our country.

Two classy dudes.
Are they all corp. owned or franchise? If they are franchised , then I suggest you spend your hard earned money, go out and buy one so everyone can just hang out there to exercise their corp. policy. I don't see any thing racist going on there. Just a manager throwing our two men because they were just taking up space and not spending anemone. I know racism exist in America. I still think its BS they pull the race card. All they had to do was "Hey, we will get a coupe cups of coffee" and be done with it. Why fight when 5 bucks will make everything go away? Hey, I aint no white boy just so you know (think like one and do what's right each and everytime)

cairns 05-04-2018 05:23 AM
Quote:
And I’m so sick of white boys denying that there is a double standard and using the “race card” as their defense.

And to your point, the CEO Kevin Johnson disagreed with this as it goes against their belief that 'Starbucks was built around the concept of a third place where we create a warm and welcoming environment for all customers. What I do know is that did not happen in this instance. And that is what we're focused on.'

If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem when it comes to a fair and equal society.
Oh bite me. Maybe you missed that fact that these people weren't customers so the CEOs words (aka save my company's ass corporate speak) don't apply. And two non customers refusing to leave a retail establishment when asked isn't racism. It's not even in the same ball park.

Your views embody the real racism- the subtle bigotry of low expectations so often expressed by whites with a guilt complex. We can't ask them to leave- they're black......

You feel that bad about it start your own business and open your offices to the public. Be sure not to ask anyone to leave when they just want to come in, hang out, use the loo, etc. For God's sake don't ask them to buy anything- especially if they're black. By your standards they probably couldn't afford to anyway, right?

Tobra 05-04-2018 07:56 AM
Quote:
These two were treated this way simply for being two black men in the wrong neighborhood. If you don’t get that, you need to get out of your white neighborhood and wake up to the double standard and profiling of minorities that still exists in our country.
Mr Reid, respectfully, this is not what transpired at all.

This particular coffee shop has had problems and has facilities for their paying customers. These guys claim they were waiting for someone, fine, buy some overpriced, burnt coffee to drink while you wait. You don't want to buy anything? Why don't you wait for them out front, please, I don't want to have to call the cops. Call the cops, we are not going anywhere.

I have asked people to leave my business before, belligerent patient. I did not ask nicely.

stomachmonkey 05-04-2018 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobra (Post 10025251)
Mr Reid, respectfully, this is not what transpired at all.

This particular coffee shop has had problems and has facilities for their paying customers. These guys claim they were waiting for someone, fine, buy some overpriced, burnt coffee to drink while you wait. You don't want to buy anything? Why don't you wait for them out front, please, I don't want to have to call the cops. Call the cops, we are not going anywhere.

I have asked people to leave my business before, belligerent patient. I did not ask nicely.
Again, acknowledging the facility has had problems in the past was there any common component?

And their "claim" that they were waiting for someone was validated when that someone actually showed up and is on tape asking the Police WTF?

Maybe they did not purchase anything at the moment because they were being polite and were waiting for their friend to arrive.

I know when I make a lunch or dinner date with friends and show up early or they are running late I sure don't just order anyway, I wait till they get there.

It's what well mannered people do.

matthewb0051 05-04-2018 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cairns (Post 10025088)
Maybe you missed that fact that these people weren't customers so the CEOs words (aka save my company's ass corporate speak) don't apply. And two non customers refusing to leave a retail establishment when asked isn't racism. It's not even in the same ball park.
Not only were they not customers but they brought in their own water bottles. They absolutely should have been asked to leave.

And why no focus on them? They are asked to leave by the manager, then the police, and nothing. What is their agenda here? In polite society if the man or the owner asks you to leave you do it. There is no trump card to be played. So they got what was coming to them and likely what they wanted anyway.

What's next, bring in your own food and beverage and just use their A/C and restrooms? For FREE?

This is much to do about nothing.

cairns 05-04-2018 09:17 AM
Quote:
I know when I make a lunch or dinner date with friends and show up early or they are running late I sure don't just order anyway, I wait till they get there.

It's what well mannered people do.
Oh please. In a coffee shop? Any well mannered person would tell the proprietor, upon arrival, that they intend to order when their friends arrive. But they didn't do that did they?? They refused to order anything and refused to leave when asked. That's not just a long way from good manners- it's downright rude. It's also trespassing.

stomachmonkey 05-04-2018 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cairns (Post 10025344)
....Any well mannered person would tell the proprietor, upon arrival, that they intend to order when their friends arrive....
oh please, there is no wait staff in a Starbucks.

You really think someone who intended to order but was waiting for the rest of their party would walk up to the counter and tell them that?

Literally no one would do that, including yourself.

Rick Lee 05-04-2018 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stomachmonkey (Post 10025356)
oh please, there is no wait staff in a Starbucks.

You really think someone who intended to order but was waiting for the rest of their party would walk up to the counter and tell them that?

Literally no one would do that, including yourself.
Well, in an inner-city Starbucks, where you have to get a key to the bathroom from the front counter, you may have to show a receipt or explain that you're going to be a customer as soon as your other party arrives. I've seen this in some Starbucks in big cities, but not too often.

cairns 05-04-2018 09:38 AM
Quote:
oh please, there is no wait staff in a Starbucks.

You really think someone who intended to order but was waiting for the rest of their party would walk up to the counter and tell them that?

Literally no one would do that, including yourself.
I wouldn't normally in a Starbucks- unless I was asked to leave. But I sure would in a restaurant. I'm gathering you don't because you're so well mannered. Just plop, wait, maybe use the bathroom and refuse to order or leave when asked.

Quote:
Well, in an inner-city Starbucks, where you have to get a key to the bathroom from the front counter, you may have to show a receipt or explain that you're going to be a customer as soon as your other party arrives. I've seen this in some Starbucks in big cities, but not too often.
Our local McDonalds does it. And so do a heck of lot of gas stations.

Seahawk 05-04-2018 09:55 AM
As a society we waste an inordinate amount of time on the trivial: There is no organized, institutional racism in the United States.

Zero, none, less than none. I would and could argue that we as a society have gone to extraordinary efforts to ensure that that is the case. I then would and could point out that many of our efforts have been misplaced and occasioned more harm than good in the cause we were trying to fix.

My Spanish relatives laugh at the efforts of the Anglo's trying to make themselves feel better about themselves by denigrating their own heritage. Who does that?

Human nature is tribal and small; mean, nasty, brutish and short.

Tobra 05-04-2018 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stomachmonkey (Post 10025281)
Again, acknowledging the facility has had problems in the past was there any common component?

And their "claim" that they were waiting for someone was validated when that someone actually showed up and is on tape asking the Police WTF?

Maybe they did not purchase anything at the moment because they were being polite and were waiting for their friend to arrive.

I know when I make a lunch or dinner date with friends and show up early or they are running late I sure don't just order anyway, I wait till they get there.

It's what well mannered people do.
You are going to strain your rationalization muscles there bro.

If they were polite or well mannered, they would have been less rude.

stomachmonkey 05-04-2018 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahawk (Post 10025387)
....There is no organized, institutional racism in the United States.....
Well that certainly does not mean there is no racism in this country, Zero, none, less than none.

As much as people want to deny, think, believe that it's not a rampant issue the reality is, it is a huge problem in this country.

That it's not highly organized makes it worse, not better.

Note I clarified organized.

Because organized racism most certainly exists.

They tend to march around with Tiki torches or wearing robes.

But I'm sure some of them are fine people.

Oh, and the Feds have been aware of efforts to institutionalize it as well.

To assume they have not had some level of success is burying one's head in the sand.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement

So, it's a bit more than zero.

Baz 05-04-2018 10:16 AM
Like I said on Page One.......impossible to analyze situation accurately without transcript or audio of what was said - and by whom - in what sequence - and in what tone.

Give me all that and I will make a ruling. :)

Seahawk 05-04-2018 10:20 AM
Of course racism exists, it is simply a function of human nature.

I can't ever begin to tell you how many times I was called "Larry Bird" (and not in a good way) playing basketball for decades...threatened as well.

Try dating black women as a white looking man in South Carolina in 1975. You probably have an idea.

But to think that there is a corporate policy anywhere in the US where swooshing minorities out of their corporate retail establishments, targeting them, is simply ridiculous.

Get over human nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stomachmonkey (Post 10025414)
Well that certainly does not mean there is no racism in this country, Zero, none, less than none.

As much as people want to deny, think, believe that it's not a rampant issue the reality is, it is a huge problem in this country.

That it's not highly organized makes it worse, not better.

Note I clarified organized.

Because organized racism most certainly exists.

They tend to march around with Tiki torches or wearing robes.

But I'm sure some of them are fine people.

Oh, and the Feds have been aware of efforts to institutionalize it as well.

To assume they have not had some level of success is burying one's head in the sand.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement

So, it's a bit more than zero.

cairns 05-04-2018 10:21 AM
Quote:
Like I said on Page One.......impossible to analyze situation accurately without transcript or audio of what was said - and by whom - in what sequence - and in what tone.

Give me all that and I will make a ruling.
Bingo. Until then some people assume racism. When there's no actual proof of that whatsoever. But it suits their political agenda.

stomachmonkey 05-04-2018 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cairns (Post 10025364)
I wouldn't normally in a Starbucks...
You wouldn't ever in a Starbucks.

What about THEM, those two specific individuals in this situation prompted them to be asked to leave?

We acknowledge the store has had "problems" in the past which we can assume resulted in people being asked to leave.

The question is, is there any common thread and if so, what is it?

Maybe, maybe not.

tabs 05-04-2018 10:23 AM
should we really care anymore...

stomachmonkey 05-04-2018 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahawk (Post 10025428)
But to think that there is a corporate policy...
No one has said that is or was the case.

In this specific situation it's somewhat of a head scratcher because everything about Starbucks is contrary to the circumstances that we know about the event.

Last Starbucks I was in Northampton MA was spit roughly 50/50 between paying and non paying customers with what appeared to be a significant number of local vagrants, some who were paying and some who were not.

I needed someplace to work for a few hours so saw a lot of the traffic, and yes, I bought something because I also needed to pee.

My experience in every Starbucks to date has left me with the impression that coming n and hanging out even without purchasing is a thing of theirs.

Usually with less vagrants though.

I guess that's location dependent.

stomachmonkey 05-04-2018 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cairns (Post 10025430)
Bingo. Until then some people assume racism. When there's no actual proof of that whatsoever. But it suits their political agenda.
Or, we can assume no racism. When there's no actual proof of THAT either. I guess that suits some other agendas.

cairns 05-04-2018 10:58 AM
I'm not assuming anything but I highly doubt race had anything to with it. That Starbucks gets some very high ratings and is noted for its friendly staff. And those guys, clearly, refused to leave when asked. That's trespassing pure and simple. They could have saved everyone a lot of trouble by (as noted) ordering some damn coffee. But they pulled the race card instead. I don't buy that as they were in the wrong. When you don't buy something and the proprietor asks you to leave you leave- no matter what color you are. That's what well mannered people do.

Excusing this behavior doesn't help black people. It hurts them.


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