older guy running (2 mos. in) and heart rate

[masraum]

I'm 47. I was a runner back in HS, and have done it here and there over the years. I guess the last time I did anything close, I spent a year or so about 10 years ago, rollerblading 5-6 days a week.

I (and the missus) started running again about 2 months ago. We're using the "Couch to 5K" app as a structured way to get going again (3 days/wk, ~30 mins/day). So far, all of my running has been on a treadmill so I know my speed, pace, time, distance.

I like to measure things, so I bought a chest strap type heart rate monitor that connects via bluetooth to my phone (or can keep your HR in mem and download later).

I've seen stuff online that talks about the max heart rate being 220-age. I also have seen something that says the new, revised version of that is 208 - age * .7. That puts me at 175 for my max.

I'm hitting my max when I run. Mon, I did a 5 min walk, then a 28 min run, then a 5 min cool down walk. During the walk (3.6mph), my HR was around 90bpm. During the run (8.5 min mile pace), it pretty quickly shot up to about 140, and then kept gradually increasing until the end where it peaked at 170bpm (except for about 45 secs near the end where I bumped up the speed and it hit 174bpm). When I cool down (5 mins) I try to relax, breath slow and smooth and slowly drop the speed to get the HR down to 120ish.

I've seen some of the "how to train by your heart rate" stuff, and they seem to have you mostly training in the 60-80% of max range. I'd be running really slowly to do that. I already feel like I'm going pretty slow at an 8.5min mile. I started at the beginning when we were only running 2 mins in intervals at a 7 min mile pace and managed to keep that up until we were running multiple 5 min intervals, but when we got up to about 15+ mins total of running, I had to slow down to do the whole run.

Mon, I ran 28 mins, about 3 1/3 miles not including the 5 min warm up and cool down walks.

Once we finish the C25K app, we are going to take a couple/few weeks to get more comfortable at 5k (the missus wants to get down to a 10 min mile). Then we'll probably start the 5k to 10k app, or maybe follow another 10k training program that I found online. We are hoping to be ready for a 10k by September.

Since we've got more training and a lot more distance, I'm curious what you guys think about me training at what the guideline says is my max HR. I'm not feeling bad, fatigued or anything other than occasionally a little muscle sore at all.

I'm thinking that I'm fine and just need to pay attention to what my body is telling me and not over do it when it tells me to slow down.

[Jims5543]

I was obsessed with running a 6.5 minute mile about 6 years ago, I was having a hard time achieving it. I found I was gassing myself out attempting to run sub 6 minute miles due to my pace and not making it.

I got on a hamster wheel (treadmill) and realize what I was doing wrong, I tried to use a cadence to keep my pace I found music to be more useful.

I stopped running a few years ago but have been having a hankering to get back into it. Thanks for the inspiration.

I remember a guy on another forum who qualified for the Tough Mudder finale, he ran a time in the top 5% which meant he was running less than 7 minute miles plus obstacles. I asked how he was running so fast and he said he hated running so he got it over with as fast as he could. Mind blown.

Regarding the heart rate, I never paid much attention to it. I used to measure it often, I noticed my heart rate at an Autocross was higher than when I run, just from driving really hard.

Since then I just go with how I feel. If I feel I am pushing too hard I back off. Listen to your body, when in doubt get a checkup from a Doc.

[masraum]

I'd like to get down to a 6min mile, but I suspect that'll be tough. When I was in HS, I could do a mile in about 5 flat. At the very least, I want to hit 7, although I'm sure I won't be doing that next week or the week after.

[Jims5543]

No, it takes time, a hamster wheel is the best and I will admit most demoralizing way to train as well.

Nothing beats the great outdoors.

[fintstone]

I hit those "max" rates all the time. After a bit I slow down and go awhile...and then get it back up to that max again. Been doing that for over 10 years...after taking a long while off and starting back about your age. So far, so good.

I was able to get down to a 6 min mile at your age...but soon slowed my pace bit (easier on my joints). Incorporating a good, commercial treadmill into your training will also help with your joints.

[RSBob]

Running at 60 to 80% May feel slow but is better for calorie conversion to energy and faster recovery. Recent studies have conclusively shown that at max heart rate can actually cause scaring of the heart muscle leading to premature death.

I am or was, very goal oriented and at 60 was stillrunning 8minute miles but it wasn’t pleasant or enjoyable. When running hills I was pegged and gasping but figured it was good for me. Then I read about a multi year study by a leading university hospital which found scaring and arrhythmia for extreme athelets. I also like cycling hills, steep long climbs where I am at my max, since this is how I have trained since my early 30s. I am calming down on those too.

That said, being relatively more fit than the average bear, my max heart rate has never fit in the age appropriate category. Typically I better fit with people 20 years younger, and that may be you too if you are a natural athlete or not, since you have had time off.

My advice is run at a comfortable rate where you can carry on a conversation without gasping. Add intervals to build speed and where you can enjoy pegging your max,without stressing or potentially doing your heart damage. https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can-too-much-extreme-exercise-damage-your-heart/L

[Pazuzu]

What heart rate strap do you have? The garmin that is a long think rubbery/plastic piece on an elastic strap isn't very accurate when you sweat, it reads way too high (my wife was getting rates of 230, 240 during runs).

She switched to the one that is a smaller roundish blob on a long strap, and got much better results.

[fintstone]

i like to use a fitbit ChargeHR on my upper wrist. I can use it on the treadmill or on the road...and i tested it against the chest strap (polar) and it was accurate.

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by RSBob

Running at 60 to 80% May feel slow but is better for calorie conversion to energy and faster recovery. Recent studies have conclusively shown that at max heart rate can actually cause scaring of the heart muscle leading to premature death.

I am or was, very goal oriented and at 60 was stillrunning 8minute miles but it wasn’t pleasant or enjoyable. When running hills I was pegged and gasping but figured it was good for me. Then I read about a multi year study by a leading university hospital which found scaring and arrhythmia for extreme athelets. I also like cycling hills, steep long climbs where I am at my max, since this is how I have trained since my early 30s. I am calming down on those too.

That said, being relatively more fit than the average bear, my max heart rate has never fit in the age appropriate category. Typically I better fit with people 20 years younger, and that may be you too if you are a natural athlete or not, since you have had time off.

My advice is run at a comfortable rate where you can carry on a conversation without gasping. Add intervals to build speed and where you can enjoy pegging your max,without stressing or potentially doing your heart damage. https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can-too-much-extreme-exercise-damage-your-heart/L

This. It’s how I hike. I don’t run since there are so many mountains here and it’s hard on my joints. I do believe it’s a good measure of fitness that a person should be able to slow jog/hike without stopping for 12-15 minutes.

[wdfifteen]

The difference between your resting heart rate and your max heart rate (either calculated or measured by a doctor) is your heart rate range. The lower part of the range is good for fat burning, the upper part is good for aerobic training.
I did all my training by heart rate, and ran at 80% of max. i would hit my rate in the first 5 minutes of running and maintain it for whatever distance I was running that day. I never tried to hit a specific speed, I let my body decide how fast I had to run to maintain that heart rate. I got down to 10 minute miles, which gave me a 4 hour 15 minute marathon.

[look 171]

I think everyone is different, Steve. I race road bikes for about 15 years and back in those days, we didn't used a heart rate monitor. The only monitor was to not get dropped in a race and hang on to deal life with heart beating outta of my chest and keep going. Can't tell you about running even though running high school x-country for two seasons was enough running to last me three life times.

I got a few years on ya. I have used HRM with the chest strap, but ended up not using it because a couple of old timers and I were talking about times when we hit our targeted HR but felt that we had lots left in the tank to keep going but decided not to due to the max HR shown. We think that hindered our training? Don't get me wrong, we are breathing like hell, but not dying to the point when max HR is reached like many other times.

Running slow or riding slow is no fun especially you when you knew deep down in your heart that you could have gone much faster. Control or having the ability to control your speed due to a specific training or recovery is important. In my younger days, I had a hard time with that and always want to go, go and go.

[Paco Anton]

I am 47 too and have been running for 5-6 years now. My first race was a 5k which I finished in 35 minutes. Now I run marathons with a PB around 3:45

In order to lower your HR you need to train at slow speeds well into your aerobic zone which gives you endurance. If you push too hard you enter the anaerobic zone which is not good for building long runs capabilities. Also the slower you ran the more % of fat you will be burning. As you go on training you will improve the speed that you can run at certain HR levels.

Read this to understand the importance of HR zones. Also take a look at the time spent in each HR zone during the runs. You want to be in zones 2-3

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/general/get-zone-train-using-heart-rate/

[PorscheGAL]

I have a hard time believing you are running at your max HR if you are lasting 28 minutes.

Heart rate monitors can vary widely.

Can you talk while you run? If you can, you can be confident you are not running at your max HR.

Talk Test Study

This is just another way to track your progress.

Good Luck getting back in the swing of things!!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

What heart rate strap do you have? The garmin that is a long think rubbery/plastic piece on an elastic strap isn't very accurate when you sweat, it reads way too high (my wife was getting rates of 230, 240 during runs).

She switched to the one that is a smaller roundish blob on a long strap, and got much better results.

It's a Wahoo TICKR X which is a direct competitor of the Polar H10. It's got electrodes and is supposed to be really accurate, especially compared to the optical HRM/oximeters built into most of the wrist band/wrist watch type monitors because it uses electrical signals. It also seems to agree with the thing built into the treadmill that I run on within a few bpm. This type is supposed to be the most accurate and works best when there is some wetness.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

I have a hard time believing you are running at your max HR if you are lasting 28 minutes.

Heart rate monitors can vary widely.

Can you talk while you run? If you can, you can be confident you are not running at your max HR.

Talk Test Study

This is just another way to track your progress.

Good Luck getting back in the swing of things!!

I've read a few ways to test/determine your MHR whether it be via talking or doing some short interval running at speed or what, but I haven't performed any of those yet as they don't fit into my training and recovery. I'll probably do one or two of them soon.

My question about the talking and running thing is how smoothly are we thinking for the talking, because you will start breathing harder, and talking gets a little harder at speed. I guess I need to go running in the neighborhood and talk to myself.

I'll read that link when I've got some more time.

I'm also running "barefoot" (in toe shoes, vibram five fingers, with minimal soles) so the running is different than I've ever done before, except maybe when I was a really young kid. You don't run "heel-toe" in these, you run "toe-heel". You land on your toes which provide the shock absorber effect and then set your heel down. It took a while to get used to and my calves still get the brunt of the workout and are the only part of my legs that get sore.

[masraum]

5 min walk, 28 min run, 5 min walk heart rate.

Towards the end, I bumped the speed up from 8.5min mile to 7min mile for about 45 secs, then hopped off for about 7-8 secs, and got back on, that's what that dip is towards the end.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by RSBob

My advice is run at a comfortable rate where you can carry on a conversation without gasping. Add intervals to build speed and where you can enjoy pegging your max,without stressing or potentially doing your heart damage. https://health.clevelandclinic.org/can-too-much-extreme-exercise-damage-your-heart/L

This great advice.
Also, get some good shoes and get outside. A treadmill will bore you to death.

[T77911S]

when I use to race bikes my max I saw during sprints was around 205, I think I hit 208 once. this was in my 30's.
I could maintain in the 180's for quite a while. 190 I new my time was limited.
climbing was in the 170's for long periods.

heart rate really didn't matter, I new when my race was done

knowing my body and even though I was not fast early, my speed at the end were my strong points.
I never raced or trained to my heart rate, training was how I felt and racing was just doing what I needed to do to get to the end.

[Tobra]

Max rate and recovery period are what you look at, as I understand it. Spin it up to 80% and see what it is after a minute of rest, how long to return to resting rate.

Get one of those blood pressure monitors, if you don't already have one. Little battery powered job should be fine, unless you have Lou Ferrigno arms or something. If the low number stays much above 80 resting, go chat with your doctor about it.

Oh yeah, all you grey and shiny top MFers need to stretch more than you do, 2-3 times a day, pay particular attention to the calves, stretch with knee bent and straight, note where it feels tight when you do this. When you bend your knee, it feels tight behind your ankle, coincidentally a failure point. Trust and believe you don't want to snap an Achilles playing a game of pickup basketball

[zakthor]

Max heart rate: There are several linear equations that purport to give max heart rate for age. Lots of places on the internet suggest to use that max to setup your training zones. Problem is the equation is for the population average, it doesn't predict actual max, it doesn't apply to you.

Like said above, max needs to be determined empirically. I am 50 and now rarely hit 195. I don't do it so much now because it isn't healthy or productive. In 8 hour mtb races my average is 165 or so.

Second is that untrained heart has lower stroke volume so will run faster. Over a few years you'll see your 'all day' rate will drop as heart starts working better.

Third, if you're indoors you might be over heating. Look up cardiac drift. I have a 30" industrial fan for bike trainer, with little fans I was at 170 while riding easy and breathing through nose. Now for those workouts my hr stays below 135.

Lt: Lactate threshold, I think in the hr graph above you're already going too hard and are above your lt. Warmup then Start running slowly until heart rate stabilizes, stops rising for a minute or so. Bump pace slowly until hr will no longer stabilize, the last stable pace is your lt pace. Above lt your muscles cant clear waste and youll eventually need to slow down.

All the metabolic zones coorellate to breath. For aerobic you want to be able to speak a few words without any discomfort.

Aerobic takes years to train, you need to go slow at first to be fast.