So when a bear eats a fish, is he violating the rights of that fish?

This thread reminds me of all the folks who bought expensive homes in the hills around Laguna Seca and then complained bitterly about the motorsport noise, nearly causing this iconic track to close. If you don't like the sound of race cars at full song, perhaps a seaside home is a better spot for you.

When in Rome...

What.

It's a serious question. Stomachmonkey says animals have rights. Certainly a fish is an animal.

Right?

Is the fish in season and a legal size?

He understands the point.

He's just being a ........

Some interesting comments about my character/knowledge of the outdoors without anyone knowing me......... oh well . So let me tell you a little about me I was born/raised in Upstate N.Y. and was an avid outdoorsman . I would be on a trout stream on opening day and the same for deer season right there on opening day . Hunted rabbits , squirrels etc. and always ate what I shot . NEVER took anything illegally always full permits/license as it should be . About 30 years ago ( I'm 60 now ) I decided the thrill of the hunt was no longer for me so I gave up hunting entirely .

I kept my firearms as some had emotional significance while others I just liked . I still shoot just not at animals . Moved to GA. about 8 years ago and to the retirement house last year . I have never been a " city boy " always lived in somewhat rural areas except for Orlando , but that is a zoo of a different kind :D My wife and I know that while our intent to feed/observe birds was just for that purpose a side result is the bear attraction .

We have taken the first step to make it much more difficult for any bear to get to the feeders , if that is not successful then we will remove the feeders entirely . But we have neighbors with bird feeders , one a bee keeper and who knows what else so I can only control my yard . So unless I put up a 10 ' wall around my property I may have to put up with a bear going to my neighbor .

OK enough about me but I hope that helps others understand where I am coming from . But I can pretty much guarantee if any of you were in your yard with your grandchildren and Mr. bear showed up you wouldn't hug him you'd reach for your gun .

KC911 this coming Sunday June 17th my wife and I will be married 40 years so I at least know something about this woman ! :D

Reminds me of the old rhetorical question:
Does a bear ____ in the woods?
No, he does it in your yard when you build your house in the woods.

Likewise, people shouldn't whine about their house burning down from a forest fire (or worse, ask the govt to spend millions to protect their home) when they built it in the middle of a forest.

Take accountability for your actions.

No. Seriously, I do not understand the concept of an animal having rights. It makes no sense to me that animals have rights.

I haven't been able to find anyone who can explain to me how it can be that an animal has rights.

If animals have rights, why then don't plants have rights?

I'm sad for you. truly.

Or is it that you just don't want to listen?

So you cannot explain to me how it is that animals have rights either, stomachmonkey. If you are so saddened for me, help me. Explain to me who should get sued when a bird murders a worm.

I'm listening.

Nope.

Not worth it.

You have no interest in honestly entertaining the thought or you are bored and are looking to kill time.

I have no interest or time for that bull****.

One thing about this place....if ya ask for opinions or advice....yer gonna get it, along with the comments....and that's what makes it great :). On my rural property, I provide an "oasis" for all kinds of critters, and actually plant fruit trees, etc. for their food....love 'em. But it's a balance, and I will indeed kill something to protect that balance if I have to. I'm a "live & let live" person, but am as much a part of nature as the lessor predators....I just have a more developed brain than the others' and have "feelings". Coyotes....I will shoot at every opportunity...there, or here in my "city" house....illegally, and I don't give a damn what anyone thinks :). My "city" house sits in the middle of what was my rural boy scout camp 45 years ago....we humans suck....and always have ;).

I have killed 5 big azz (2' diameter) snapper turtles in the past year on my rural place....just to eliminate them. They needed killin'....as Eastwood would have said....and I didn't really want to....but I digress...

Congrats on the upcoming 40th!

Until somebody can explain to me how it is otherwise, animals do not have rights.

Since you first speculate about my interests or my honesty or motivations let me speculate on yours, stomachmonkey.

You are confused. Animals do not need to be treated humanely, nor their lives be dismissed as inconsequential musings as I think you think I believe they should.

Animals should be treated humanely and with respect but NOT because they have rights because they don't. Since they do not have rights (and you are unable to explain how it is that they do) they also have no responsibilities, they cannot be innocent nor can they be guilty of anything.

But, as sad as it may be for you, animals do not have rights.

Yer a killin machine!!!

Nah, it's you who is confused.

The Law of Nature grants us all the right to life.

It is so absolute that it also grants us the right to take a life as a means to that end.

You speak only of the laws of man which are created by us purely for our own convenience and at the expense of all else.

It is the law of man, that ironically, will lead to mans demise and Nature will continue on without us as it did for billions of years before us.

Man will have been nothing more than a pimple popped on natures ass.

Whatever it is you're trying to say, afterburn, I think I agree. We do have responsibilities. Luring animals to their doom is disgusting and immoral.

And we, like you say, as humans, should be sensible.

But what I don't understand is why my expression that animals do not have rights (which still has not been refuted) somehow justifies pity for me or brings derision upon me or whatever it is.

Animals do not have rights. For some confused and cloudy reason, my saying animals do not have rights, gets misconstrued as something evil or selfish or ignorant. I love animals. But no matter how much I love them, they do not have rights.

I love asparagus and roasted Brussels sprouts, too. But somehow, declaring they do not have rights is A-OK. Where's the cut-off to what gets rights and what doesn't?

Is it murder to kill an insect? How about a mouse, or a coyote? Why is it that I can violently violate a spider in the shower or an apple and be on my merry way, or even a cow? Yet, somedamnhow, people will, and without any given reason(s), argue that animals have rights.

I'm confused?

Nothing in natural law assigns rights or responsibilities. It just is.

Man's law does. And Man's laws do not apply to animals.

The argument essence -comes dwn to numbers
We have an unending number of mosquitoes and bugs.
As custodians of the earth as of right now, I am not too concerned over the prolific varieties.
Again -to lure an animal with a meal to kill it for no other reason then ones own inability to manage what they are doing is wrong.
The romance is in the squirrels, rabbits, raccoons and whatever shows up.
If they are not invited then I say make sure they get the memo.
I have lived here amongst the lil Blackies most my life.
They are wonderful critters to watch.
Learn to like them all.
If we do then we do what is right, not a hipshot city thing.

I agree with AB...up to a point...but I attempt to be sensible also. I like to fish (bass), and usually "wet a line" every few daze. I have no intention of eating them, only use artificial baits with hooks I've removed the barbs, and TRY not to ever let a fish really get the worm "too good".... if they do, I'll simply cut the hook, leaving it in the bass....gives 'em a better chance to survive imo. Those that don't, become (remaining) turtle food :). I hate it when that happens, try my best to avoid it, and when it does, I'm done for the day....penalty box for me ;). All of this....I do purely for my enjoyment, and don't really even care if I catch a 1, 5, 10lb bass or none at all. So...am I " disgusting and immoral"? I truly don't know...I don't think so, but a "bass lover" might while encouraging the extermination of more snappers...hard to figure out sometimes imo. I also have a "muskrat problem", but I leave them alone and spend countless hours repairing the damage they do to my pond dams amd berms....Tim Hancock would shoot them in a split second ;).

The "balance of nature".... I try....but I'm a killin' machine too....it just depends....YMMV.

The groundhogs on my rural prop have sanctuary too....the groundhogs that are attracted to the tomato plants my dad has at his "city house".... not so much.

AB....I agree with ya man, I truly do. I do everything possible (within reason) to "live and let live"... I really do. I'm gonna leave this thread now....I need to go kill stuff....weeds ;)