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Bollweevil
 
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The Big 3 and Congress Rant

This is not meant to be about whether Detroit should be bailed out or not. I think many, if not most, of us believe the CEO's of the Big 3 are getting pretty much what they deserve in the congressional hearings. Watching them now grovel before congress while begging for money is justice is many ways.

However, to watch members of congress harangue them for stupid decisions, bad management, etc. is the height of hypocrisy. This body of congress is the same group that over the years has given us the most complex, unfair tax code in the known world. Hell the IRS can't even decipher it. Have allowed a health "system" which can provide anywhere for some of the best care in the world to almost non-existent health care, depending on where you are in the food chain. (And a whole lot of people being laid off these days are fixing to find out what health care without corporate paid insurance can be like. ) And with the help of the executive branch have run up a national debt which is beyond comprehension.

It would take volumes to list all the stupid laws congress has passed. This is definitely the group to be accusing someone else of bad management all right.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:21 AM
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I was watching yesterday when Schumer got owned by one of the CEO's. He called them out for the laws that were passed that have made it to difficult for them to compete and made Schumer look like the tool he is.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:47 AM
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Not to mention all of their special perks like Pelosi and her private jet paid for by the taxpayers.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Baron View Post
I was watching yesterday when Schumer got owned by one of the CEO's. He called them out for the laws that were passed that have made it to difficult for them to compete and made Schumer look like the tool he is.

Granted I didn't see the testimony yesterday, but don't ALL automakers selling cars in the US have to comply with the same standards? (CAFE standards, crash safety, etc.)

I heard that there is a Federal law that requires the Big 3 to buy out failed dealers (franchises) anyone know if that's true? Does this apply to foreign automakers as well?
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Old 12-05-2008, 08:55 AM
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...and it's only a matter of time before one of those holier-than-thou congressmen get caught with their hand in the cookie jar (or intern's pants)! But if a millionaire CEO of a multibillion $$ company is looking for a loan where no one else will give them one, I say let 'em grovel! AND give us a sound business plan, or hit the bricks!
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:39 PM
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As long as the average UAW employee with a high school education make 50% more than the average PhD...they will never be able to compete.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:23 PM
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*Quietly hating myself for agreeing with fintstone.*

I grew up in Detroit/Ann Arbor. Knew a guy that was a complete cocaine addict/drunkard. He made $70,000 a year plus bonuses, full medical dental. He was considered skilled labor because he drove a big fork lift that moved parts around. The last I heard from him, he had just come out of his 3rd or 4th drug rehab, paid for on the company's dime. He laughed about it, because he new he was pretty much unfireable because he had a 'medical problem'.

Sickens me to this day. What an a55hole.

Then of course there is the 'job bank'......insanity. Simply insanity.

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As long as the average UAW employee with a high school education make 50% more than the average PhD...they will never be able to compete.
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:22 PM
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The union 'job bank'. Beyond disgusting.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm

WAYNE -- Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:24 PM
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Despite watching these CEO's get grilled by Congress and bashed by the public, we all know it's just a dog and pony show and they WILL absolutely get a bailout. 100% will happen. Congress has to make a show of it and make people think they're trying to look out for the taxpayer. I wouldn't be surprised if both sides had already agreed on the outcome and had paid consultants to coach them on how to make it look like a fight in these hearings. In the end, the big three will get bailed out, no matter what the public thinks or Congress says they think.
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Old 12-06-2008, 11:28 PM
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Despite watching these CEO's get grilled by Congress and bashed by the public, we all know it's just a dog and pony show and they WILL absolutely get a bailout. 100% will happen. Congress has to make a show of it and make people think they're trying to look out for the taxpayer. I wouldn't be surprised if both sides had already agreed on the outcome and had paid consultants to coach them on how to make it look like a fight in these hearings. In the end, the big three will get bailed out, no matter what the public thinks or Congress says they think.
+1 and it's disgusting
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:44 AM
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Old 12-08-2008, 03:30 PM
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The really frustrating thing is that GM has been bleeding money for years as it loses more and more market share while being unable to trim costs. The economic downturn has only accelerated what is probably inevitable: bankruptcy. I fear that any bailout will only be a temporary measure. When the $75 billion is spent they'll be back and the taxpayer will be just another of their creditors in bankruptcy and restructuring proceedings. I hope the bailout is not a fait accompli.
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
Despite watching these CEO's get grilled by Congress and bashed by the public, we all know it's just a dog and pony show and they WILL absolutely get a bailout. 100% will happen. Congress has to make a show of it and make people think they're trying to look out for the taxpayer. I wouldn't be surprised if both sides had already agreed on the outcome and had paid consultants to coach them on how to make it look like a fight in these hearings. In the end, the big three will get bailed out, no matter what the public thinks or Congress says they think.
It's funny watching Congress try to force the current Admin to do something so they won't take the heat and can continue to blame Bush for the weather of the day.

In the end, the UAW has the Dems in their pocket and this will go through just as you stated. Then Congress will blame Bush for not acting sooner.

Dog and poney show is right.

The UAW has their dick in the tax payers arse while the Congress has it in our mouth as they're telling us how much we need this, and how we should be thanking them for taking care of this.
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:31 PM
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An interesting story, involving Illinois, bailout, BofA and shuttered business in the state, and picketing employees as well as Obama's view of the situation.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ahDmj5UJtGd4&refer=home
Old 12-08-2008, 04:38 PM
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That is interesting. The window and door company has posted losses in the past 3 years and announced that it is going to shut down in 2009, yet the gov't wants BoA to continue to extend credit to them? (Partly because BoA received bailout money). I though the bailout was supposed to create liquidity, not stupidity. If the company were viable, then sure, force them to supply needed credit. Credit to make payroll is fine... if you have anticipated income! This sounds more like welfare to the employees that the bank will not see returned. Maybe I misunderstand something.
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:52 PM
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I think you have the picture very clearly. I just shake my head when I hear this stuff. It really has turned into just standing in line and screaming like a baby.
Old 12-09-2008, 02:27 AM
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I'm 100% opposed to ALL bailouts, but I think a prerequisite (before using taxpayer $) would be to require the top execs to hand in their resignations (including UAW brass, etc.).
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Old 12-09-2008, 02:34 AM
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This is just ridiculous and I suppose it will get worse. I can see some inequities in the situation in Illinois but it's not caused by BofA. We have truly turned into a welfare society. Why is Obama even getting involved?
Old 12-09-2008, 02:43 AM
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It will get worse. On our dime. The WSJ's lead article states how Congress will take over the industry- with an autoczar. Instead of bankruptcy and rebirth the Big 3 will go the way of the British car industry.

And as much as I dislike Rick Wagoner the sight of a scumbag like Chris Dodd calling for his removal is beyond disgusting. The Democratic leaders of this Congress are the worse I've ever seen. Name one Democrat in leadership with honesty, integrity and guts.

Where's Supe to defend the "workers" and tell us how great unions are BTW?
Old 12-09-2008, 04:27 AM
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ON Paper...Socialism should be more efficient than Capitalism, since the production for a year is predicted, and the stuff to be used that year is produced. If the predicitions are sound, then then system is efficient.

The problems are: Who makes the predictions?

In Capitalism, someone with a stake in the game makes the decisions. If they screw up, they either open themselves up for losses, or they leave market share for a competitor.

In Socialism, they are NOT supposed to have a stake in the game, but act altruistic. The reality is that the men in the government become powerful, since they will set which "Company" gets the resources. So lobbying takes on a whole new furvor. And kick backs, bribes, etc, become the way things work.

Do we really want this here? I would prefer to let the US Automakers go bankrupt and then have a chance of competing. The SMART move would be for the car companies to go out of business, then have their foriegn alter-egos setup new companies in the USA, just like the other foriegn car companies.

We all know what this really is from the government. It is a power play to keep the union workers happy. If so, the USA has just become part of the European Union. We might as well give up our guns and cut off our balls as well.
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Old 12-09-2008, 04:45 AM
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