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This is getting ridiculous: Pirates seize 2 vessels in Gulf of Aden

This is getting ridiculous...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081216/ap_on_re_mi_ea/piracy
Old 12-16-2008, 12:20 PM
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This is a more important issue than afghanistan....and a hell of a lot more 'winnable'.
Old 12-16-2008, 09:55 PM
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How many American flagged vessels have been seized?
Old 12-17-2008, 01:05 PM
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How many American flagged vessels even ply international waters these days? I get the impression it is not very many.
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Old 12-17-2008, 01:14 PM
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the big news here is China deploying their navy to the area - first time outside of local waters.
Old 12-17-2008, 02:10 PM
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the big news here is China deploying their navy to the area - first time outside of local waters.
This will be very interesting...and watched by more than just the pirates.
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Old 12-17-2008, 02:25 PM
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Russia could be helping there, rather than doing their stupid provocation/exercises near Cuba.
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Old 12-17-2008, 02:51 PM
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I may be naive, but wouldn't the problem be solved by one Awacs, a couple of patrolling Sea-hornets and a declaration that any unidentified vessel that approaches within 5 km of a Merchent vessel would be sunk?
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Old 12-17-2008, 03:58 PM
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I may be naive, but wouldn't the problem be solved by one Awacs, a couple of patrolling Sea-hornets and a declaration that any unidentified vessel that approaches within 5 km of a Merchent vessel would be sunk?
I posted this on the other pirate link, some good info:

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/story.asp?STORY_ID=1693

Interesting problem. The size of the area of interest, number of cargo ships passing through the area, number of pirate ships and their ability to mask themselves with the thousands of other, small, pirate-appearing ships doing legitimate trade render high tech AWACS-like solutions feeble. That, and the logistics required to cover the threat means it gets vexing.

Pirates, like IEDS, are an asymmetric threat and don't often fit into the design specs of a blue water navy. Crowded sea lanes with a mix of vessels make a strange brew.
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Old 12-17-2008, 04:14 PM
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The greatest group of people ( the UN) have now got involved in this problem. This will make the problem go away in a matter of seconds, or days, or centuries. Boy, you cant piss off the UN or else !!!!!!! Those ships can now sleep at night based on this news.
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Old 12-17-2008, 04:14 PM
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They are currently drafting a stern letter to the pirates, condemning their actions and demanding they stop at once or face an angrier letter.
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Old 12-17-2008, 04:35 PM
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They are currently drafting a stern letter to the pirates, condemning their actions and demanding they stop at once or face an angrier letter.
Pirates hate scolding letters, as does Bush.
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Old 12-17-2008, 05:38 PM
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I have sailed a boat under the deck of one of those boats. They are parked offshore here in San Pedro/ Long beach all day.

They are huge and menacing. For the people who haven't seen one up close, imagine pulling up to a 10 to 15 story building in your car and capturing it.

I can't figure out how one of these vessels can be hijacked. How do the hijackers get on board?
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Old 12-17-2008, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aap1966 View Post
I may be naive, but wouldn't the problem be solved by one Awacs, a couple of patrolling Sea-hornets and a declaration that any unidentified vessel that approaches within 5 km of a Merchent vessel would be sunk?
The area we are talking about is IMMENSE.

So no.
Old 12-17-2008, 06:28 PM
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In addition to the problems of area, identification, etc. there also seems to be a legalistic or procedural set of problems.

I've read of cases where pirates are captured and then simply deposited ashore because the naval vessel doesn't have anywhere to try them or believes it lacks jurisdiction. I'm also reading that when there are security guards on the merchant ships, they are un-armed because the local ports don't permit weapons.

I guess it sounds as if the merchant ships and the navies are all working under very restrictive "rules of engagement" if that is the term.

I'm thinking that the UN and the local countries will get these procedural roadblocks out of the way before long.

Agreed that the bombastic statements on the board, to the effect that Western firepower can easily wipe out the pirates, were unfounded.
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Old 12-17-2008, 08:20 PM
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Agreed that the bombastic statements on the board, to the effect that Western firepower can easily wipe out the pirates, were unfounded.
I have no personal military expertise, and am enthusiastically open to (and would defer to) the opinions of those that do. My thinking was:
a) you don't need to cover the whole area, but rather an exclusion zone within which potentially threatening vessels will not be tolerated. This may be a seaway, or a mobile exclusion zone of say, 10 miles around the vessels one wishes to protect.

b) you don't need to "wipe out" the pirates, but rather raise the cost of their business . At the moment, if they take a vessel they win, if they fail to take a vessel, they suffer little other than frustration. If the pirates thought each attempt entailed a 25% chance of being sunk, would this curtail their activities?

c) I realise it would be expensive, but as this is a problem that affects the shipping of every major power the cost / resources involved could be spread.

Firepower is an imperfect tool, but what else do we have? Stern letters from the U.N.? What are the alternatives? (That is actually a genuine, rather than merely rhetorical question.)
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:07 AM
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You have guys with outboard powered boats, AK-47s and RPGs.

Now imagine if the Bush ordered the US Navy or Coast Guard to sink all threats and lock the survivors in Guantanamo?

Time magazine would have pictures of the poor harassed "fisherman" on the front cover.

Not our problem - and shows how bad things get when we don't provide leadership or pay for the fix..
Old 12-18-2008, 04:53 AM
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