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(the shotguns)
 
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fair weathered friends and religion

Very good friend of mine sent me an email out of the blue recently. he lives 4 states away and i really haven't seen much of him since high school (and both of our weddings which, btw, we both participated in). Nearly grew up in his house as a youngster and his dad was pastor at the church we attended. He believed in God but didn't pretend the real world didn't exist. Just a good all around kid.

Time passes and things change i guess.

We exchanged a few emails...how's the family kinda stuff. Then he asks have i been going to church lately. I haven't been and was honest about it. Fact is the congregation evolved from a collection of good folks to what, imo, was more extreme. Basically you had weak minded people who wanted to blame their failures on some mystic force (anything but themselves) and you had predators who search out such folks to take advantage of them. I told him as much and that the clue for me was when the drum kit took its place next to the pulpit and hands started flying up in the air during hymns (which, btw, became more and more 'modern'). In some churches they call this 'praise worship' or some such thing.

So, point being we had been having a nice catch up conversation. We USED to be of the same mind about such things. Well after i tell him this i get no more emails. nothing.

i guess my clue should have been he left a good paying private job in the field he loves (video production/editing) to 'teach' at the local church school. nothing wrong with that if it's what you want but again we used to have the same views on such things. we knew that by segregating themselves from normal functional society and making your entire life a 'hail mary' pass hoping 'God will provide' that many 'unsaved' people would be alienated and never bother to learn more.

so here i am thinking for myself and what do i get? judged and pushed away. the more time passes the more man poisons the truth (whatever it may be) about our creator with faulty human reasoning and nonsense. religion essentially.

folks if you are arse deep in a congregation somewhere and ignoring people because they aren't drinking the same kool aid as you PLEASE stop and do a reality check. it is very selfish to behave like this and if you truly believe the wages of sin is death then maybe you need to evaluate your actions.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:38 AM
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I know some Lib's like that. The problem is, some can not handle having their beliefs challenged in the slightest.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:00 AM
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Well, lets imagine you were a kid and you liked fast cars and your friend knew so. Even though you liked cars, you were a little kid, and you knew that you would never be able to afford a Pantera so you had a realistic outlook.

Later in life, you become incredibly passionate about auto racing. You have an old Porsche, which you do club racing with, and you talk often about obscure car racing topics like the Nurburgring and Hans Stuck and Walter Rohrl. Meaningless crap.

You exchange emails with your childhood friend, and ask him "what kind of car are you driving?" He replies with an email about how "auto racing is for social outcasts with tiny d1ck$ and it's a total waste of time and money. Why do they spend all their time driving fast around a course, only to end up where they started?"


In less words, maybe he just got upset or your email came across to him in a way you didn't mean. If he's passionate about teaching at the church school, then be happy for him. I think you're confusing the issue if you think RELIGION is even a part of this problem with your friend.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:32 AM
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Or maybe the truth hit home.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:39 AM
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He didn't get "judged", he just kind of showed bad form by ripping something his friend was obviously very passionate about. By coincidence it was religion. Why would the former friend want to stick around for that?
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Old 09-14-2009, 10:59 AM
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we grew up together in church. he was the best man at my wedding. i would've hoped he'd at least be willing to accept that for some people 'religion' isn't the same thing as God. such things should be secondary to our friendship anyways.

but Gogar as usual you turn the mirror on me and i see some truth in it. bastard.

and this is a new concept for me. it's unfamiliar territory. i haven't walked around with these thoughts my whole life. in fact as i read them i can't believe what i've said. i have simply found, through experience, that religion is often a shield carried by both the lazy and the evil to gain entrance into the hearts of kind people. i have learned to be distrustful of it both in a common sense and intellectual fashion.

but our relationship shouldn't be defined by or subject to religion. and making it so is exactly what i was griping about. i still believe there is a God and a hell....but for those that aren't even to this point....well what are they to do when they are treated as less than equal by people who drink their choice of kool aid by the gallon?
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Well i had #6 adjusted perfectly but then just before i tightened it a butterfly in Zimbabwe farted and now i have to start all over again!


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Old 09-14-2009, 12:59 PM
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gogar note that i didn't 'rip' religion. i referred to the congregation. BIG difference and one he knows full well about.
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Well i had #6 adjusted perfectly but then just before i tightened it a butterfly in Zimbabwe farted and now i have to start all over again!


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Old 09-14-2009, 01:03 PM
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Beretta's recent experience reflects what is happening to a lot of people, I think. It's a reflection of information overload. People (as in the human race) have never been exposed to such enormous amounts of information with such ease and such speed. It is a rare individual who is not threatened when he realizes the ideas he holds as irrefutable get challenged. It is especially frightening when those challenges have merit and are presented with reason and tact by nonthreatening persons or institutions. Sometimes we feel blindsided or even betrayed. Though Beretta's experience was about religion, the phenomenon has less to do with religion than it does with individual growth, knowledge, and experience but mostly, I think, information.
Old 09-14-2009, 03:26 PM
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Had a similar experience with a good friend from high school, but not about religion.

Very cool guy and we got along great. We kept in touch throughout college, professional life, etc. even though we lived several states apart.

I didn't realize it in H.S., but after putting on some more years of experience, I realized that my super cool friend who was a blast to hang around with, always hung around with the HOTTEST socialites of Dallas, had smoking chicks around him all the time, and whose majority of friends were--you guessed it, HOT chicks--had to be gay, as in all the years I knew him, I realized he never had a girlfriend or did guytalk about girls. he always did have the hottest "dates" for prom and so forth, though (just a friend, of course).

So as our 10 year H.S. reunion came and went, we started talking more on the phone to keep in touch. The fact that he was most likely gay didn't bother me at all, as he was a great person.

I didn't know how to broach the subject with him. So I (mistakenly) figured I would make a very innocent little joke that had to do with homosexuality to let him know it wasn't an issue for me, but in no way accused him of being gay. Well, that simple little statement shut the door on our communications and I never heard from the dude again. That was thirteen years ago.

He ended up tracking me down on facebook and sent me an e-mail about a year ago. I replied, got something very terse back from him abut two months later and haven't heard again.

Sucks.

Last edited by J-P; 09-14-2009 at 03:32 PM..
Old 09-14-2009, 03:29 PM
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Crow that is a pretty fascinating read on things. Appreciate it.
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Well i had #6 adjusted perfectly but then just before i tightened it a butterfly in Zimbabwe farted and now i have to start all over again!


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Old 09-14-2009, 03:45 PM
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Speaking from experience here, sometimes the social experience of being in a Church can be so powerful, so fulfilling in its structure and simplicity, that it becomes easy to reject anything that might threaten it.

"Believe what we believe and you're family"

I had that phase in my life as a young adult and found that to be part of one community was to turn my back on another community. I didn't like the trade-off, so I quit. But I know plenty of people who choose to live that way and who I see consistently struggling with their choice. Its sad, but for some people, their lives in the church and the structure it provides is worth more than being on good standing with their friends and family.
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:48 PM
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You're welcome, beretta. Your experience has happened to me several times (see my user name). And Mat, your contribution seems to fall right in with the phenomenon of cultism which gives it great credibility.
Old 09-14-2009, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowbob View Post
You're welcome, beretta. Your experience has happened to me several times (see my user name). And Mat, your contribution seems to fall right in with the phenomenon of cultism which gives it great credibility.
The Northern Baptist Church does not **** around, I'll tell you that
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:03 PM
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mine was s. baptist but it wasn't the message i had a problem with. it was the people that turned the church into a whacko-fest.
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Well i had #6 adjusted perfectly but then just before i tightened it a butterfly in Zimbabwe farted and now i have to start all over again!


1970 911T, 2.4 swap
Old 09-15-2009, 07:57 AM
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:57 AM
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