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Explain this to me.

"The supreme court is set to examine the constitutionality of Arizona's cracking down on illegal immigrants..."

So in essence they are debating whether or not a state can enforce prosecution of criminals? I'm confused!
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:44 PM
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Where did you get that quote? I doubt that line is mentioned anywhere in the suit.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:07 PM
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It is the supreme court of Mexico, right?
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:57 PM
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It has to do with the fact that immigration is under federal and not state jurisdiction...
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:07 PM
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No, it has to do with the fact that Obama's federal government is hell-bent on protecting its right to not enforce the law since having illegals around gives them a lot of easy democrat votes (easy to sucker with promises of "free" stuff).

This is a state's rights issue. And AZ should absolutely win it on Constitutional grounds.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxpaws View Post
It has to do with the fact that immigration is under federal and not state jurisdiction...
counterfeiting is a federal matter. is a state cop just supposed to stand there with his thumb up his ass while a truck full of fake $100s cross in front of him?
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:20 PM
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If AZ loses this one, I'd love to see AZ (and other states) refuse to assist in enforcement of all federal laws, particularly with respect to gun and drugs. The best way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it strictly. Ditto for court decisions.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:23 PM
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I think it would be great if Arizona started deportation on their own and then the feds can quit spending fed money on Arizona's problem - it costs between $12,000 and $23,000 to deport someone - I hope AZ has a whole lot of money just sitting around to handle the extra expense.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:45 PM
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or arizona could just give them bus tickets to boulder colorado. $200.problem solved.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:48 PM
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I THINK the issue is how they were enforcing the law. That people had to have their papers on them at all times and could be inspected at any given time by any official who thought they "looked" illegal. It essentially encourages racial profiling.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:49 PM
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I THINK the issue is how they were enforcing the law. That people had to have their papers on them at all times and could be inspected at any given time by any official who thought they "looked" illegal. It essentially encourages racial profiling.
exactly wrong on every point.

you've have to be pulled over for some other crime before the cop can ask your immigration status.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrocket View Post
I THINK the issue is how they were enforcing the law. That people had to have their papers on them at all times and could be inspected at any given time by any official who thought they "looked" illegal. It essentially encourages racial profiling.
Since the law never went into effect, there was never any enforcement of it. Furthermore, racial profiling is 100% legal and common at the federal level. The Border Patrol does it every single minute of the day on I-8 and I-5 in CA. Totally legal. I have no problem with racial profiling. If 100% of illegals coming from the south look to be of Mexican descent, then there's not much point in stopping to question people who look different than that. You don't have a lot of rights within 100 miles of the border anyway. If I have to give up my 4th Amendment rights there, I'm not real concerned about anyone else being asked about their legal status. Every single federal form asks the applicant's race too. Who else can get away with that? I went to job interview today. If the guy had asked me if I have any Hispanic in me, that would have been grounds for a lawsuit, yet the gov't. can do it all day long.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:54 PM
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We need illegals to perform low skill labor. What we need to change is the tax side of the immigration issue.
Old 04-24-2012, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmint View Post
exactly wrong on every point.

you've have to be pulled over for some other crime before the cop can ask your immigration status.

The law specifically does not say you'd need to be pulled over to be checked. It merely says that they can check the immigration status of those with whom they come into contact with. That's pretty broad reaching.

Rick Lee: Also, the law would allow local AND state police to do the "profiling". Not just those at a federal level. And what if you were born in the USA, but of hispanic descent? Since you are a born US Citizen, you wouldn't have any papers on you. And if you told the officer "I don't need papers, I was born here" would that be sufficient for him to let you go? I doubt it....
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Last edited by Hydrocket; 04-24-2012 at 11:14 PM..
Old 04-24-2012, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrocket View Post
The law specifically does not say you'd need to be pulled over to be checked. It merely says that they can check the immigration status of those with whom they come into contact with. That's pretty broad reaching.

Rick Lee: Also, the law would allow local AND state police to do the "profiling". Not just those at a federal level.
No, the law says they have to have reason to believe you're here illegally. They really don't have time to just stop random people on the street to check on immigration status. Nevermind that most cops don't want to bother illegals because they need their help in reporting and investigating crimes in their neighborhoods.

They'd have a pretty hard time suspecting someone who looks like me of being here illegally, when I speak perfect English, have lots of ID and a nice car. A 1985 Nissan Sentra beater with some non-English-speaking Mexican women and cleaning supplies in it driving in a neighborhood no one would be caught dead in such a car? Not so much.

Why shouldn't the state and local police do the profiling? They're the ones on the ground and most familiar with the local situation. Border Patrol doesn't work this far north of the border and ICE routinely ignores local police calls to come and pick up illegals they picked up on other charges and then let go.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Lee View Post
No, the law says they have to have reason to believe you're here illegally.
Yea...we know how well the police follow the letter of the law.....they could fabricate anything to make it into a reason to believe someone was here illegally.

And while you may speak perfect English, I know many people who were born here who still have very heavy accents because it's the primary language they speak at home. And like many, don't always drive a nice car.

I just think there is reason to believe the law may be abused...which is why it's going to the federal level.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:27 PM
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I just think there is reason to believe the law may be abused...which is why it's going to the federal level.
The feds abuse the law more egregiously and more often than any state could ever hope to. Who's going to stop them? They are the biggest enforcers of racism and racial profiling in the world. They ask your race on every single form. They require everyone else to do so on their behalf. The Border Patrol will 100% stop you if they look in your window and it's a car full of brown people. Does anyone on PARF honestly think Eric Holder is keeping us safe from state and local police abusing our rights? Shirley, you can't be serious. He is the personification of the fox guarding the henhouse.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by varmint View Post
exactly wrong on every point.

you've have to be pulled over for some other crime before the cop can ask your immigration status.
A seasoned law enforcement officer once told me that any experienced policeman can always come up with a "reasonable cause" if he wants to stop someone and check him out. As a matter of fact they are trained to be able to do just that.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:46 PM
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That's true. And if you don't know your rights, you don't have any. If you don't know how to dodge a cop's fishing questions, you're in trouble. The feds certainly don't roll any differently and, per SB 1070, the local cops STILL need a reason to believe you're here illegally before asking you about it. If they don't have a reason, then your lawyer has a good case. If they do have a reason, you'd better know how to keep quiet.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:49 PM
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Just show the cop your driver's license like everyone else does. How difficult could that be?
Old 04-25-2012, 03:28 AM
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