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Originally Posted by Hugh R View Post
Back up your assertion that I am a liar. Show me EXACTLY where I lied. What you have done is show you don't know the difference between income taxes and other taxes. No wonder you're broke.
Payroll tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Payroll tax generally refers to two different kinds of similar taxes. The first kind is a tax that employers are required to withhold from employees' wages, also known as withholding tax, pay-as-you-earn tax (PAYE), or pay-as-you-go tax (PAYG) and often covering advance payment of income tax and social security contributions.
Hugh you don't understand that withholding tax includes federal income tax, think of it as a pre-payment in lieu of waiting until April to pay it all. You don't understand this, which explains why you are so *****y, I cannot explain the greedy part - sorry.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:16 AM
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Kach - half pay no income taxes. Plain and simple. You can't count payroll taxes like FICA(Social Security) or medicare as you get that money back. Income Taxes are for street and armies and borders etc.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:49 AM
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Kach

When "they" say 1/2 don't pay income tax, what that means is they get a refund of what they may have paid in, and possibly Earned Income Tax Credit. So let me get this right, you are calling me a liar because I said about 1/2 don't pay income taxes, but you say they do pay income taxes in withholding? Is that correct? Even though they get it all back, you still think they pay income tax?

You on the other hand in a past thread said something like if I pay in $50,000 in income taxes and get a $5,000 refund, and you paid in $1,000 and got a $1,000 refund, I got the better deal because I got more back than you? BTW, the concept of "pay" I think is generally accepted to be the net transfer of monies between two parties. In this example I would "net pay" $45,000 to the IRS and you would "net pay" zero dollars. Do you get that concept?

Better yet, if you go to Sears and buy a drill for $50 and get a mail in coupon for a $5 rebate, which you mail in and get the rebate, do you think you "paid" $45 or $50 for said drill? Minus the cost of the envelope and the stamp of course.

I thought architects had to be sort of good at math; apparently not.
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Last edited by Hugh R; 05-25-2012 at 11:02 AM..
Old 05-25-2012, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by DAEpperson View Post
You can't count payroll taxes like FICA(Social Security) or medicare as you get that money back. Income Taxes are for street and armies and borders etc.
This is certainly true. I have to point out as an employer we have other payroll taxes that are added in addition. And we don't get a dime of it back.
Old 05-25-2012, 11:01 AM
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You know George, I think this is the first instance where I have seen Mr R give the appearance of being even sort of angry on this site.


You are not only wrong, you are being a bit of an ass.
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:12 PM
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So who here is begrudging the fact that elderly people, who have paid income taxes for maybe 50 years have no 'skin in the game'. Looks like that's 20 percent or more of the households roughly 40 percent of the 'freeloaders'
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:03 PM
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Who said the elderly should pay income taxes on SS? I don't recall that in this thread. In fact, SS is taxable if you draw it and also work on the side. This is income that was already taxed and you pay income taxes on it to boot. I think that is wrong. And its about 20% of the 50% who don't pay income taxes.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tobra View Post
You know George, I think this is the first instance where I have seen Mr R give the appearance of being even sort of angry on this site.


You are not only wrong, you are being a bit of an ass.
Yep
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:23 PM
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20 percent of the 50 percent is 40 percent of non paying households. They would still pay taxes if their income is high enough, but it's not. Thats 2 in every 5 households that don't pay taxes.

Logic says if you're not gonna count FICA (payroll) taxes as a tax, then you should not count Social Security and Medicare as govt expenses.
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Last edited by hardflex; 05-25-2012 at 07:36 PM..
Old 05-25-2012, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobra View Post
You know George, I think this is the first instance where I have seen Mr R give the appearance of being even sort of angry on this site.


You are not only wrong, you are being a bit of an ass.

I'm annoyed, a lot. I bought George and another Pelican lunch a year or two back in Ann Arbor and we had a pleasant time (IIRC, he was stretched for money) . He told me he was hesitant about having lunch with a conservative, but agreed to go forward.


I don't like being called a liar. I may be mistaken sometimes, but that doesn't make me a liar. In my opinion you need to re-read what both of us wrote.

George, you didn't realize that pretty much everyone who draws a paycheck has withholdings which includes anticipated income taxes, whether you get a refund or not? I thought you were a business man?
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Last edited by Hugh R; 05-26-2012 at 07:30 AM..
Old 05-25-2012, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh R View Post
I'm annoyed, a lot. I bought George and another Pelican lunch a year or two back in Ann Arbor and we had a pleasant time (IIRC, he was stretched for money) . He told me he was hesitant about having lunch with a conservative, but agreed to go forward.
Thanks for that lunch, Hugh. That was me, and if you remember I offered to pay for everyone. Perhaps next time. It was good to meet other Pelicans from different parts of the world and even political isle.


I call time out.
Old 05-25-2012, 08:09 PM
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John70T, thanks for the kind response. I do remember that you offered to pay, I was more than happy to pick up the tab. Time out is OK with me. As I recall, it was a really pleasant afternoon. Nice looking waitress too .
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Last edited by Hugh R; 05-25-2012 at 08:43 PM..
Old 05-25-2012, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hardflex View Post
So who here is begrudging the fact that elderly people, who have paid income taxes for maybe 50 years have no 'skin in the game'. Looks like that's 20 percent or more of the households roughly 40 percent of the 'freeloaders'
I will begrudge them. My parents are exactly this. They paid taxes their whole careers and now get SS and Medicare. Their attitude now is to vote for whomever promises them the most gov't. cheese and will support any new taxes or spending as long as they think it won't affect them. That's the problem with not having skin in the game.

Prime example is when NJ wants to raise the cigarette tax, they always say, "Well, why do I care? I don't smoke." Of course, the state spends the money they project they'll get, they never get that much, issue bonds for it and then everyone pays for it, especially the non-smokers, who tend to make up more of the income tax base.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:24 PM
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"I won't have lunch with a conservative"

Talk about insecure about your own values.

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Old 05-25-2012, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile View Post
How? Unemployment (UI) income is still considered income and you're supposed to pay tax on it.

In fact, there's a little check box on the form that you tick off to tell them to withhold X% if you want to do it that way versus getting (possibly) a big bill for the following April.

It's still income and has to be reported and is taxable AFAIK.
I got all I paid in back in my tax refund.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:45 AM
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Well I won't get into the argument of who pays what. I do know I've always had money taken out and usually owe more at the end of the year!
Old 05-26-2012, 08:08 AM
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Mr. Pink: I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's fuqed up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government fuqs in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college bu----it I got two words for that: learn to fuqin' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big fuqin' surprise.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:18 AM
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Rick, why don't you buy them an Ann Coulter book or BillO That'll fix them
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:21 PM
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:16 PM
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exactly. Or feigned exasperation at "Conservative stupidity" followed by huffing off and running away.

I still can't get over john70T not being able to handle going to lunch with a Conservative. Talk about a Hothouse Flower. My God.

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Old 05-26-2012, 04:50 PM
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