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Amazing, isn't it? ... that team-Obama's sol'n to the problem of rising health care costs is a massive tax increase to fund the health insurance industry. AND the people okay with that 'solution' will criticize Romney for not having a better solution. --Doing NOTHING is a better solution!

Why is that so tough for the Obamatrons to understand?

team Obama is interested in ONE thing (and it is NOT better health care)....












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Last edited by island911; 07-06-2012 at 10:52 AM..
Old 07-06-2012, 10:49 AM
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It will not get everyone health insurance. It may get more people enrolled in medicaid, but a lot of states are opting out of that part. The ones that choose to participate will get a federal subsidy for doing so, but the subsidy is phased out and this expense is shifted to the states participating. Upshot of this is it will add significant entitlement program expense to state budgets in the long run for states that participate.

It seems pretty clear it will make insurance more expensive for the people that have it, already appears to be doing so. The insurance companies have to rebate a portion of premiums, if they don't have the right ratio of dough spent on administration to dough spent on medical care(Medical Loss Ratio) I don't know if this will result in a net gain or loss to individuals or health insurance companies. I do know who wrote a lot of this stuff, and it certainly was not someone from the individuals team.

We already have a bit of a doctor shortage, as I understand it. Unless a lot of doctors I have spoken to regarding this are just blowing smoke, so to speak, it will induce a large number of doctors to retire in the next few years. This, coupled with all the demand for "free" healthcare services this act is expected to generate, is likely to create a pretty acute need for more doctors, particularly those that deal with the elderly.

It does have a catchy name, so there is that.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taz's Master View Post
I wonder why that information isn't publicly available.
I'd suspect it's considered proprietary information (for the insurance companies).

Quote:
What are the specific measurable goals for the AHA?
Universal coverage. Meaning, everyone's got health insurance of some sort.

That's definitely a noble goal. Especially if we consider ourselves to be the most properous/modern/caring/etc country in the world.

At the same time, the way the ACA rules are written, we will always have some segment of the population that will not have health insurance. Some (a lot of?) people will not have the means to afford health insurance and will pay the fine/tax because it's cheaper that way. Some people just don't file taxes--do you think they're going to pay the fine if they're not insured? And some people just won't comply with whatever rule gets passed. They're the same ones for whom I'll make appointments with the county health system and they wind up no-showing at those free clinic appointments. And what about illegals? That's not necessarily a small segment of the population, depending on where you live. If they don't have health insurance through employment, it's probably not likely they will have the means to afford insurance. They're still not covered, ACA or no ACA.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:48 PM
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I'm pretty sure all the Hispanic gardeners in Los Angeles work on a cash basis. I'll bet they don't pay income taxes and won't be paying the fine/tax either. They will continue to go to the ER.

How many illegals in the USA again? About 30 million. What is the uninsured population again? About 30 million. I'm not saying all uninsured are illegal or vice-versa. But its worth noting.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh R View Post
I'm pretty sure all the Hispanic gardeners in Los Angeles work on a cash basis. I'll bet they don't pay income taxes and won't be paying the fine/tax either. They will continue to go to the ER.

How many illegals in the USA again? About 30 million. What is the uninsured population again? About 30 million. I'm not saying all uninsured are illegal or vice-versa. But its worth noting.
"....all the Hispanic gardeners in Los Angeles."
Those are pretty bold statements and inferences Hugh. What data do you have that back that up, or is that just a WAG on your part? BTW, not true. Might be you're inferring all Hispanic gardeners are illegal or the entire uninsured population are illegal immigrants. That's like someone claiming all white folks cheat on their taxes. I suppose stereotyping a group makes it easier to back up/reinforce a personal belief.

Try to be more more accurate and less like Rush Lindbaugh in your style. Your credibility increases as a result.

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Old 07-06-2012, 07:07 PM
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There you have it, Hugh. You're obviously a racist. Just believe in the smoke and mirrors, and everything will be all right.

Nice tap dance around the R word, sherwood.
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:48 PM
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He's right Hugh, there might be a couple gardeners that aren't working for cash. who knew.
As far as all white people that cheat on taxes, maybe embellish a little. As white people and if they all really cheated they would go to jail. Holder would see to it.
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911pcars View Post
"....all the Hispanic gardeners in Los Angeles."
Those are pretty bold statements and inferences Hugh. What data do you have that back that up, or is that just a WAG on your part? BTW, not true. Might be you're inferring all Hispanic gardeners are illegal or the entire uninsured population are illegal immigrants. That's like someone claiming all white folks cheat on their taxes. I suppose stereotyping a group makes it easier to back up/reinforce a personal belief.

Try to be more more accurate and less like Rush Lindbaugh in your style. Your credibility increases as a result.

Sherwood
. Maybe instead of "all" ,a poor word choice, I should have said "many". Are you happy now?

Might be you're inferring all Hispanic gardeners are illegal or the entire uninsured population are illegal immigrants That would be kind of a stupid inference on your part.

My POINT is that there is a huge underground economy of people who work on a cash basis and don't file income taxes.
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Last edited by Hugh R; 07-06-2012 at 10:12 PM..
Old 07-06-2012, 09:39 PM
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He is enlightened Hugh. You just can't see it because you are a right wing lunatic.




Wait, that is not right, I have met you and your wife and you are both fine, intelligent people.



I already do a lot of free care on illegal aliens and medicaid patients anyway. This whole Obamacare thing will just have me paying a little more to do that free stuff, unless of course the massive bureaucracy that goes along with it will run for free.

Did a free drainage of an abcess on a young man with a hispanic surname 2 weeks ago. Got him out of the hospital quick as i could, to minimize the grief he would give the nurses. He never called to get his free follow up visits, and is liable to end up back in the hospital. I am not saying that he or his fiance, with five children, are illegal aliens, but turst and believe they are not filing tax returns.

I don't so much mind doing the free stuff, but it bothers me more than somewhat when they are nasty to the staff.
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh R View Post
My POINT is that there is a huge underground economy of people who work on a cash basis and don't file income taxes.
They are propping up Social Security and will never collect, which is why Washington DC is not motivated to solve the problem. And yes, this puts the burden on the border states and local economies.

How illegal immigrants are helping Social Security
By Edward Schumacher-Matos
Friday, September 3, 2010
Edward Schumacher-Matos - How illegal immigrants are helping Social Security
Quote:
.....by 2007, the Social Security trust fund had received a net benefit of somewhere between $120 billion and $240 billion from unauthorized immigrants.

That represented an astounding 5.4 percent to 10.7 percent of the trust fund's total assets of $2.24 trillion that year. The cumulative contribution is surely higher now. Unauthorized immigrants paid a net contribution of $12 billion in 2007 alone, Goss said.
Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions
Published: April 5, 2005
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html

Illegal immigrants pay Social Security tax, won't benefit
riginally published Wednesday, December 28, 2011 at 10:00 PM
Nation & World | Illegal immigrants pay Social Security tax, won't benefit | Seattle Times Newspaper
Quote:
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — While many Americans believe illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, billions of dollars deducted from paychecks issued to undocumented workers flow to the Social Security Administration (SSA) every year. Those workers almost certainly will never see that money again.

..............."I've always been paid by check and I've always had those taxes taken out," she said, referring to Social Security and Medicare. She said her husband, also Mexican, has been paid by payroll check for all but one of his 14 years in the country.
It would be interesting to find out if the cash economy is larger than the fake SS economy.

Does anyone have an article to offer up? I respect opinions, but some data would be nice to review.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:58 AM
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how do these illegals pay into anything when the very large portion of them work for cash. do they just send some sort of check into the IRS and SS. how would they put money into SS without a number/card, if they have a number/card it is fake so they are putting money in for someone else.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by BeyGon View Post
how do these illegals pay into anything when the very large portion of them work for cash. do they just send some sort of check into the IRS and SS. how would they put money into SS without a number/card, if they have a number/card it is fake so they are putting money in for someone else.
Perhaps you didn't have a chance to read the previous links before posting your response.

Again, you assume a large portion of illegal immigrants work for cash. One of the articles might provide an explanation for you.

S
Old 07-07-2012, 07:02 AM
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I guarantee that is a net loss George. There may be the odd illegal alien that contributes more than they take, but I suspect I could count them on one hand. The amount they take in social services is simply astronomical. I see it all the time, not every day, but regularly and for years.

'But Toby, they are not collecting social security and they are paying in"

That may be, but if I take $1000 out of your back pocket, and put a ten in your front pocket, am I doing you any favors, really.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:01 AM
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I guarantee that is a net loss George.
Again, I respect your personal experiences and opinion, but would like to see some real evidence - as in data or conclusions based on data as published.

The more official, the better.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:51 AM
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I guarantee that is a net loss George. There may be the odd illegal alien that contributes more than they take, but I suspect I could count them on one hand. The amount they take in social services is simply astronomical. I see it all the time, not every day, but regularly and for years.

'But Toby, they are not collecting social security and they are paying in"

That may be, but if I take $1000 out of your back pocket, and put a ten in your front pocket, am I doing you any favors, really.
This article might be worth a read for a differing POV than yours.
Racist Myths about Mexican Immigrants

BTW, your comment, "I see it all the time" (actually, "regularly and for years") is purely anecdotal, and it bears no statistical validity other than in your own mind with a limited survey sample. Of course, there's a chance your sampling methods may be statistically valid. If so, let us know.

Sherwood
Old 07-07-2012, 01:58 PM
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Yes! step 3

See Sherwood, I just knew that you could pull off a genuine "cry racist."

That makes it official - You ARE a Liberal Playbook graduate..


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Old 07-07-2012, 02:37 PM
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Yes! step 3

See Sherwood, I just knew that you could pull off a genuine "cry racist."

That makes it official - You ARE a Liberal Playbook graduate..
Let's see. From the referenced website, here are the statements used by racists (their descriptions):

"Mexican "illegals" are "parasites" who want a free-ride from the U.S."

"Mexican "illegals" pay no taxes, contribute nothing to our society or our economy, then rape our social services systems for free, unearned benefits."

"Illegal Mexican immigrants are criminals deserving severe punishment."


You tell me. Are these the statements of an unbiased, reasonable mind? If you agree with them, I'd say, "if the shoe fits ....." or, "Show me some credible data that proves otherwise." (I tossed in the term, "credible" in an attempt to reduce the volume of cartoons and captioned photos many use as a substitute for "data").

You give me too much credit. All I did was provide a link along with this comment: "This article might be worth a read for a differing POV than yours." See post #95. BTW, there two points of view on that webpage. Why so defensive?

I didn't define the term, "racist", nor did I accuse anyone of it. However, I did provide a comparison between the tone of several statements with an attitudinal definition.

Not sure how your "bag-of-tricks" poster has anything to do with this other than contributing to your post total. Be my guest if you wish to comment on playbook tactics 1, 2, and/or 3 as it relates to post 95. We wouldn't want to ignore contextual facts that show those bold statements above are indeed true, so please include them.

Thanks. I'm still here.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:16 PM
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are they Mexican, are they illegal, what do you want to call them, oh yeah, the liberal leftist mantra, not white undocumented. they are talking about Mexican illegals. Not Irish illegals, not Canadian illegals. Is it racist to call illegals from Canada Canadian Illegals.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:43 PM
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By kacki's reasoning we should have 20x more of them here to fund 100% of SS
Old 07-07-2012, 06:23 PM
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Is the issue here with the people or with the Welfare state? It is amazing how simple most of these issues get when you end the Welfare State. When the benefits end so does the magnet that attracts many illegals.

But, the Kleptocrat party is committed to the Cloward-Piven Strategy of driving up demand for the Welfare State so they can grow government. End the Big Government Social Welfare Industrial Complex and see how quickly people's standard of living improves and unleash the American Economy. Of course a lot of Democrats and government employees would have to get real jobs, and they won't stand for that. They are doing too well by "doing good" under the status quo.
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:24 PM
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