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Since my last assignment was directly and successfully related to counter terrorism, it's probably stacks up with anything you're doing now.

SnileWavy

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Actually, I do. Do you know my background with DoD, DoJ and DHS? I've got no sympathy for people who leave the country to work with terrorist organizations and they or anyone else who feels they have not forfeited any rights under the Constitution.



But it's a free country. I'll defend your right to think so and be a jackass.




Yes. We know you have woked as a contractor for the govt...didn't impress much.
Old 10-28-2012, 02:12 PM
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"Some have raised the issue of al-Awlaki's U.S. citizenship, claiming he was entitled to being treated as legally different from other belligerents. In the still-applicable 1942 Nazi saboteur case of Ex Parte Quirin the Supreme Court concluded otherwise, finding that U.S. citizenship of 'an enemy belligerent does not relieve him from the consequences of a belligerency.' In this instance, that 'consequence' is being targeted like any other enemy.
"The court explicitly found that 'there are circumstances in which the executive's unilateral decision to kill a U.S. citizen overseas is constitutionally committed to the political branches and judicially unreviewable.'
"In short, if a U.S. citizen overseas presents an imminent threat, or is a participant in an organized armed group engaged in armed conflict against the U.S., as the administration seems to be alleging is the case with al-Awlaki, the mere fact that he may also be accused of criminal offenses does not necessarily give him sanctuary from being lawfully attacked overseas as any other enemy belligerent might be."


That answers my question. I was wondering how someone who was an avowed enemy of the United States and operating overseas could still be subject to the protections of the constitution. The answer seems to be "they aren't." Sometimes common sense rules.
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by fintstone View Post
Good try, but there is nothing to indicate that he was an "enemy belligerent" or "an imminent threat, or is a participant." There is nothing to indicate he was ever near a battlefield or was armed.
So you dismiss his entire involvement in the Fort Hood shootings or is that no longer a terrorist act?

I ask again:

Where is the terrorist's battlefield?

In conventional warfare, is a Military leader engaged in a non combatant role well behind the lines an allowed target?
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:30 PM
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Bingo! Its kinda like the Ten Commandments.... its not up for discussion, you either follow them or you do not.
I swore to defend the Constitution.

I also respect the Supreme Court decision that set the precedent.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:34 PM
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That answers my question. I was wondering how someone who was an avowed enemy of the United States and operating overseas could still be subject to the protections of the constitution. The answer seems to be "they aren't." Sometimes common sense rules.
The funny thing is that those that are arguing his citizenship are doing so on a technicality. The technicality that he did not go in and sign a piece of paper. Regardless of that fact he verbally renounced his citizenship many times.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 70SATMan View Post
...is a Military leader engaged in a non combatant role well behind the lines an allowed target?
this will make the 3rd time the question has been posted

also, add in that they say he was engaged in "planning and directing efforts" by an AQ affiliate, which sounds a LOT like an enemy general
Old 10-28-2012, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JE928sx4 View Post
Since my last assignment was directly and successfully related to counter terrorism, it's probably stacks up with anything you're doing now.

SnileWavy
LOL. Kep dreaming.
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wdfifteen View Post
...That answers my question. I was wondering how someone who was an avowed enemy of the United States and operating overseas could still be subject to the protections of the constitution. The answer seems to be "they aren't." Sometimes common sense rules.
But you are still wrong. Funny how you can read what you want into almost anything. Merely being an avowed enemy and doing anything anywhere (overseas or in the USA) other than being a belligerant certainly ensures he is subject to the protections of the Constitution. Pretty simple. It is no different than murdering an American citizen in Ohio or China that preached against the US. The Constitution doesn't allow the President to just decide their rights (granted by God per the Constitution) are no longer valid and they can be executed without due process or trial. That is why we did nit murder Bill Ayers, etc. What if BO decided that the Ambassador to Libya was a threat to the Country and had him murdered? Is that OK becasue he was overseas at the time?
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 70SATMan View Post
So you dismiss his entire involvement in the Fort Hood shootings or is that no longer a terrorist act?...
The only involvement that I am aware of is that he acted as spirtual guidance to the shooter. As far as I know, he did not provide funding, weapons, or assistance in any manner.

As far as whether or not Ft Hood was a terrorist act? I believe it was, but the official position of the government and the President is that it is not terrorism, but rather, "workplace violence"...so clearly that cannot be justification for killing the Imam.

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Originally Posted by 70SATMan View Post
...I ask again:

Where is the terrorist's battlefield?

In conventional warfare, is a Military leader engaged in a non combatant role well behind the lines an allowed target?
I have not answered because it is a stupid question born of a clumsy attempt at socratic questioning...and a waste of time, however; to keep you from continuing to mastubate and receive internet "high fives" from other folks that are either ignorant of the law and the Constitution or merely intentionally obtuse, I will try.

Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” 28 C.F.R. Section 0.85.

Therefore, the "terrorist's battlefield" whould be the location where "force and violence against" those "persons or property" occurs. Also, by this definition, words could hardly be considered either "force" or "violence"...nor an instrument of terror. In fact, as an American citizen, Al Awaki's speech was protected by Constitution under protections on speech as well as religion.

In conventional warfare, a military leader that is not medical or religious are generally considered valid targets up to a point.

You are mixing up the law of war and the Geneva Conventions which concern countries/militaries at war with The US Constitution (probably intentionally as you could not possibly be so dense) which apply differently and to different people. Targeting of enemy military leaders or members of an opposing armed force while in a state of war is acceptable; assassination is not as the Executive Order 12333 outlawed assassination in 1970. Do you consider Al Awaki a military member or a civilian? If he is a civilian leader of a foreign military, it is an illegal act of assassination. If he is a minister preaching fundamentalist Islam, it is illegal whether he is in the military or not. If he is an American citizen, it is illegal unless he is physically on the battlefield as a belligerant. He is again protected by the Constitutional protections mentioned earlier...due process, jury trial, etc.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:16 PM
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I swore to defend the Constitution.

I also respect the Supreme Court decision that set the precedent.
Please elaborate. Surely you do not mean the ruling of the Supreme Court of the United States in Ex parte Quirin. If so, I would be very interested in how you find this a parallel.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:22 PM
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You're just another Government hack who plays weekend warrior with a pile of contractors that do the real work. That's how it is. That's how it's been for decades. If you claim anything else, I'd laugh in your face given the opportunity. Yea. I'm not a contractor anymore....I walked away from that BS and happier for it every day that don't have to work with people like you anymore.



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Since my last assignment was directly and successfully related to counter terrorism, it's probably stacks up with anything you're doing now.



SnileWavy

LOL. Kep dreaming.

Last edited by JE928sx4; 10-28-2012 at 06:47 PM..
Old 10-28-2012, 06:38 PM
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He provided "spiritual guidance". Most people might classify it as brainwashing, encouraging, goading, directing......there are plenty of words. You're a ****in' hoot Finny. Pure chicken hawk and full of ****.
Old 10-28-2012, 06:44 PM
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He provided "spiritual guidance". Most people might classify it as brainwashing, encouraging, goading, directing......there are plenty of words. You're a ****in' hoot Finny. Pure chicken hawk and full of ****.
Wouldn't you use the same terms for any religious zealot...even a Christian ...?

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Mormons are freaks. Plain and simple.
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Last edited by fintstone; 10-28-2012 at 08:06 PM..
Old 10-28-2012, 07:00 PM
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You're just another Government hack who plays weekend warrior with a pile of contractors that do the real work. That's how it is. That's how it's been for decades. If you claim anything else, I'd laugh in your face given the opportunity. Yea. I'm not a contractor anymore....I walked away from that BS and happier for it every day that don't have to work with people like you anymore.

Lost your job, eh? Tough break.

I don't use ay contractors in my "government hack" job. There are none that have the appropriate skills and clearance.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:11 PM
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Nope. Quit on my own terms mid contract in 06' and never looked back.

Sure there aren't. There is always a contractor involved in some step. To say otherwise just nails it for me.
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You're just another Government hack who plays weekend warrior with a pile of contractors that do the real work. That's how it is. That's how it's been for decades. If you claim anything else, I'd laugh in your face given the opportunity. Yea. I'm not a contractor anymore....I walked away from that BS and happier for it every day that don't have to work with people like you anymore.




Lost your job, eh? Tough break.



I don't use ay contractors in my "government hack" job. There are none that have the appropriate skills and clearance.

Last edited by JE928sx4; 10-28-2012 at 07:20 PM..
Old 10-28-2012, 07:16 PM
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Nope. Quit on my own terms mid contract in 06' and never looked back.

Sure there aren't. There is always a contractor involved in some step. To say otherwise just nails it for me.
Sure you did.

It must be devastating to realize that your limited experience just doesn't cover much. Tell me about what my agency does and how it does it after you have worked for it (or any agency)...or even allowed to know anything about it other than the most mundane that you watch on TV..
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:10 PM
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Absolutely I did. Went on Sabattical and had the time of my life for a year in Germany. Checked off lots of bucket list items.

Don't know your agency, but civillian contractors are able to get the highest clearances particularly in the Military Industrial Establishment. Many times on the ships I worked on I had a higher clearance that most of the crew, so that negates part of your BS. At DHS I worked with the FBI and CIA which i know both are full of contractors since I worked with many of them. I know they do work for the NSA, you name it. In fact, anyone who thinks they are the "lone guy" whose shoes nobody can fill is usually the guy who can be replaced without a problem. You're full of **** Finny.

Last edited by JE928sx4; 10-28-2012 at 08:33 PM..
Old 10-28-2012, 08:27 PM
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LEt's get back to Al Whacky
Old 10-28-2012, 08:29 PM
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Absolutely I did. Went on Sabattical and had the time of my life for a year.

Don't know your agency, but civillian contractors are able to get the highest clearances particularly in the Military Industrial Establishment. Many times on the ship I worked on I had a higher clearance that most if the crew, so that negates part of your BS. At DHS I worked with the FBI and CIA which i know both are full if contractors since i worjed with many of them. I know they do work for the NSA, you name it. In fact, anyone who thinks they are the "lone guy" whose shoes nobody can fill is usually the guy who can be replaced without a problem. You're full of **** Finny.
Sure you did. The unemployment sabbatical.

Contractors work where and in the capacity we determine they can work. Just because they work for an Agency does not mean that they can work in any area or in any type of work only the ones they are allowed to. Some are prohibited by law. In other areas, they simply do not have the skills. Many tasks are inherently governmental.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:35 PM
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Nope. 06' Finny. Contracting at DHS was at a premium. Was offered more money to stay but had my plans all set. I worked in Germany for 6 months and lived and toured 6 months. Had the job lined up before I quit DHS. Came back and went private sector. Have no desire to work with idiots like you again. I can't picture you because I met so many like you that spewed the same BS.

But of course. As it was on the ships. There were places I could go but most sailors couldn't. Saying nobody can do your job or get the clearance is what makes you full of **** Finny.
Old 10-28-2012, 08:53 PM
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