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Quote:
Originally Posted by fintstone View Post
At the expense of the poor.
The Robber Barons were not poor, fint. My fav is Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, who famously stated "Let the public interest be damned."
Old 11-21-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb View Post
The Robber Barons were not poor, fint. My fav is Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, who famously stated "Let the public interest be damned."
hey, Anderson Cooper is the grandson of a Vanderbilt, I bet they are turning in their graves. but then that grandfather wasn't much of a man.
Old 11-21-2012, 01:38 PM
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I read the title and I am responding, period. I am no union dude at all. Yes back in the day they were needed, (cuz of greedy capitalist), ((oh wait we still have those)). The CEO etc. made millions for bankrupting the company, not once, not twice, but 3 times. Yet the workers, YES the workers are forced to give up pay, benefits, and retirement. It's not a union thang, it's a greedy capitalist thang. God, when are you folks going to realize that?
It's like GM back in the late 80's. The CEO's etc. making millions of dollars in bonuses as the company shyts the bed. Justify that, (I know you can) .
And of course those same workers paid through their taxes, as did you & I, to get GM out of bankruptcy. But wait you say!!! they've paid every penny back. But wait you say!!!, "We need big business, (I agree). Then why I say did your fearless leader want to let GM crash & burn?
See my posts on the Africa tread. Nothing for nothing, we're all just a pack of ass holes.
And I don't give a fuch if your a righty, lefty, commie, marxist, buddha, muslim, mormon,
we'd kill our own mother for a dollar.
A very sad state of affairs.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:16 PM
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Before you jump on the band wagon of union bashing....after every reorg the pay for the bakers went down.....the pay for the execs went up......

Bad management pissed away profits.....now the owners have a cash crunch, have to do a Chapter filing but a commodity they can cash out on and run away and retire.....
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb View Post
The Robber Barons were not poor, fint. My fav is Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, who famously stated "Let the public interest be damned."
The unions demanded wages that were far higher than their nonunion counterparts. Their employers passed the cost onto the poor nonunion scmucks who gained nothing in pay but had to pay the inflated prices for manufactured goods.

Eventually they demanded so much that the companies could increase prices enough to pay....so the companies moved south or overseas to escape the union blackmail.

The Robber Barons get their cut either way. The union gets their higher than market pay...from the poor.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb View Post
The Robber Barons were not poor, fint. My fav is Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, who famously stated "Let the public interest be damned."
You mean William H. Vanderbilt, the railroad industrialist. Cornelius Vanderbilt never said that, he said a lot of things, but not that. William Vanderbilt was speaking about the Chicago Limited decision.

The rest of the quote:

“I am working for my stockholders. If the public want the train, why don’t they pay for it?”
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:58 PM
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:20 PM
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What the ****?

Quote:
I read the title and I am responding, period. I am no union dude at all. Yes back in the day they were needed, (cuz of greedy capitalist), ((oh wait we still have those)). The CEO etc. made millions for bankrupting the company, not once, not twice, but 3 times. Yet the workers, YES the workers are forced to give up pay, benefits, and retirement. It's not a union thang, it's a greedy capitalist thang. God, when are you folks going to realize that?
It's like GM back in the late 80's. The CEO's etc. making millions of dollars in bonuses as the company shyts the bed. Justify that, (I know you can) .
And of course those same workers paid through their taxes, as did you & I, to get GM out of bankruptcy. But wait you say!!! they've paid every penny back. But wait you say!!!, "We need big business, (I agree). Then why I say did your fearless leader want to let GM crash & burn?
See my posts on the Africa tread. Nothing for nothing, we're all just a pack of ass holes.
And I don't give a fuch if your a righty, lefty, commie, marxist, buddha, muslim, mormon,
we'd kill our own mother for a dollar.
A very sad state of affairs.
Old 11-21-2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
Cornelius Vanderbilt never said that, he said a lot of things, but not that.
Scott, You can find the quotation in Dee Brown's book, The American West

I will accept his researched book over some internet postings I found attributing a similar statement to Wm. V., as you stated.

Last edited by RWebb; 11-21-2012 at 09:05 PM..
Old 11-21-2012, 08:44 PM
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He is long dead. Who cares. Whatever he said.
Old 11-22-2012, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
It's like GM back in the late 80's. The CEO's etc. making millions of dollars in bonuses as the company shyts the bed. Justify that, (I know you can) .

And of course those same workers paid through their taxes, as did you & I, to get GM out of bankruptcy. But wait you say!!! they've paid every penny back. But wait you say!!!, "We need big business, (I agree). Then why I say did your fearless leader want to let GM crash & burn?
This whole post is ridiculous, but it brings up two points worth making. One, they didn't pay it back. WE still own stock WE paid 100s of millions for that is now worth a quarter of that. It will never be paid back and it was a bullsjit bailout. Two, Romney never said let them fail. He said let them restructure through existing bankruptcy laws that exist for this purpose. The same laws by the way that allowed GM to become GM. Obama is the one who fooled the bulk of the American sheople. Good leaders lead, bad leaders blame.
Old 11-22-2012, 05:22 AM
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Why doesn't the Union make a bid for Hostess? After all, they collected those Union dues for 80+ years. They must have put those dues in trust for their members benefit, right? No? Then what did they do with all that money?
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Well, looks like the fat lady sang today. Bankruptcy judge approved bankruptcy and elimination of 15,000 jobs immediately and another 3,500 jobs in the next few months. By March there will be only about 200 employees of Hostess left.

All the angst and bashing of the horrible capitalist system may make those workers feel better over the holidays while they are collecting their unemployment checks.

The one thing this proves is that while the liberals may bemoan how inept or greedy the business owners/CEOs are (and they may be right in bemoaning it), the bottom line is that the dude who puts the filling inside the Twinkie doesn't make any jobs.

Good job Baker's Union. Now instead of an 8% pay cut your members have a 100% cut.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb View Post
Scott, You can find the quotation in Dee Brown's book, The American West

I will accept his researched book over some internet postings I found attributing a similar statement to Wm. V., as you stated.
Grabbed the e-book of that last night, nope, not in there either. You have your Vanderbilt's confused.

The American West: Dee Brown: Amazon.com: Kindle Store

Should you wish to grab the Kindle edition for a little refresher course. The reason I knew this it's a common confusion. Cornealius is often sited for quotes against the educated individual being a success, that's his fame. Henry for his financial experiences dealing with the workers.

This is ol' Cornealious:

"If I had learned education I would not have had time to learn anything else."

You can see there is no possible what this person would have said what you posted. Cornealius was much a dullard really. Also see the quote the Black73 posted and it's very, very clear.

Dee Brown is mostly a "fiction" writer, and his non-fiction, well that boarders on fiction as well. So even if he had thought he had the quote correct it would be highly suspect at best.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:30 AM
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The real Robber Barons

Quote:
Let Them Eat Cake: As Hostess Workers Get Hurt, Bakery Union Bosses (& Their Kids) Do Well
By: LaborUnionReport (Diary)


With more than 18,000 Hostess employees now unemployed due to a union strike, one of the more disturbing parts about the entire travesty is statement in a press release issued by bakers’ union boss Frank Hurt:
Throughout this long and difficult process, BCTGM members showed tremendous courage, solidarity and devotion to principle. They were well aware of the potential consequences of their actions but stood strong for dignity, justice and respect.

Eighteen thousand Americans are now without jobs to put bread on their tables (pun intended). Yet, Frank Hurt will not be hurt in the least by the strike he led his members into taking, or the resulting unemployment of both his members, as well as other Hostess employees.

‘Irresponsible’ union bosses take care of themselves.

As with most union bosses, Hurt and the rest of the officers at the Bakery, Confectionery & Tobacco Workers (BTCGM) have themselves covered with six-figure salaries, their own fully-funded pension plan, as well their own benefit plan.

While Hostess employees now face unemployment, Frank Hurt doesn’t get hurt at all. He gets to walk away with his six-figure salary, his benefits intact, and a fully funded pension plan still intact–because it’s all paid for by his union’s members.

This is why Hurt’s statement is so outrageously calloused hurtful as he (and his union) knew the likely outcome of their strike would be the unemployment lines, and the union boss himself had encouraged the strike:

Bakery union President Frank Hurt has come out against the proposal.

“I would never sign this piece of crap,” he wrote in a union publication a few weeks back, speaking of the Hostess labor proposal.

The hard line taken by Hurt, as expected, is not sitting well with everyone at the negotiating table.

“It’s irresponsible,” said one source close to the Chapter 11 reorganization, alluding to Hurt’s position after he had stayed away from the talks.


Hurt’s hurtful blame game.

Over the last week, the bakers’ union boss has gone out of his way trying to shift the blame for Hostess’ demise away from the union strike he orchestrated and onto the company’s management team.

However, as the Teamsters noted last week:

The BCTGM chose a different path, as is their prerogative, to not substantively look for a solution or engage in the process. BCTGM members were told there were better solutions than the final offer, although Judge Drain stated in his decision in bankruptcy court that no such solutions exist.

It seems this is a common mistake for the bakers’ union, which has seen it membership fall from more than 117,000 in 2000 to just 82,372 at the end of 2011.


Even though his union lost roughly 30% of its membership over the last decade and Frank Hurt condemns the pay cuts and other concessions his members took at Hostess, as the union’s president, Hurt saw his total compensation rise nearly 45%–from $181,840 in 2000 to $262,654 in 2011, according to Department of Labor reports.

Meanwhile, as his union members’ industry pension fund is in critical status, less than half funded (over $10 billion in liabilities as of 2011), bakery union bosses are sitting pretty. They have their own union pension fund (paid for by union members) that is 100% funded.


All in the family (a nepotist in every union).

As is the case in other unions, nepotism is something that bakers’ union bosses apparently embrace.

In addition to the six-figure salaries paid to the union’s executive staff, both Hurt and the union’s secretary-treasurer have their kids working inside the union’s headquarters, pulling down over $71,000 and nearly $49,000, respectively.

No jobs, but they do have “dignity, justice and respect.”

While Frank Hurt and his fellow union bosses spin their tales of how bad Hostess management was, they can be comforted in knowing that their union strike caused the unemployment of more than 18,000 Hostess employees right before the Holidays.

Although they may not have money for Christmas presents, and not much to be thankful for tomorrow (or the day after, as they head to the unemployment lines), at least Hostess employees have, as Frank Hurt put it, their “dignity” and “respect.”

As for Frank Hurt, he and his kids won’t be missing out on much since they still have their pay, benefits, and pensions–all paid for by their (now unemployed) union members.
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Let Them Eat Cake: As Hostess Workers Get Hurt, Bakery Union Bosses (& Their Kids) Do Well | RedState

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Quote:
Even though his union lost roughly 30% of its membership over the last decade and Frank Hurt condemns the pay cuts and other concessions his members took at Hostess, as the union’s president, Hurt saw his total compensation rise nearly 45%–from $181,840 in 2000 to $262,654 in 2011, according to Department of Labor reports.

Meanwhile, as his union members’ industry pension fund is in critical status, less than half funded (over $10 billion in liabilities as of 2011), bakery union bosses are sitting pretty. They have their own union pension fund (paid for by union members) that is 100% funded.
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:28 AM
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Nate's dad! Good to see you posting again man.

Quote:
Well, looks like the fat lady sang today. Bankruptcy judge approved bankruptcy and elimination of 15,000 jobs immediately and another 3,500 jobs in the next few months. By March there will be only about 200 employees of Hostess left.

All the angst and bashing of the horrible capitalist system may make those workers feel better over the holidays while they are collecting their unemployment checks.

The one thing this proves is that while the liberals may bemoan how inept or greedy the business owners/CEOs are (and they may be right in bemoaning it), the bottom line is that the dude who puts the filling inside the Twinkie doesn't make any jobs.

Good job Baker's Union. Now instead of an 8% pay cut your members have a 100% cut.
Old 11-22-2012, 08:58 AM
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Nate's dad! Good to see you posting again man.




Quote



Well, looks like the fat lady sang today. Bankruptcy judge approved bankruptcy and elimination of 15,000 jobs immediately and another 3,500 jobs in the next few months. By March there will be only about 200 employees of Hostess left.

All the angst and bashing of the horrible capitalist system may make those workers feel better over the holidays while they are collecting their unemployment checks.

The one thing this proves is that while the liberals may bemoan how inept or greedy the business owners/CEOs are (and they may be right in bemoaning it), the bottom line is that the dude who puts the filling inside the Twinkie doesn't make any jobs.

Good job Baker's Union. Now instead of an 8% pay cut your members have a 100% cut.

Thanks. I pop my head out from under a rock from time to time.
Old 11-22-2012, 12:13 PM
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when you look at the unions like that and our President/Congress, it's no wonder they are so close, lots of similarities.
Old 11-22-2012, 12:34 PM
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Does everyone think the name, "Hostess" and their ubiquitous products, Twinkies and Cup Cakes, will disappear forever? If so, there's a fundamental lack of understanding of the dietary requirements of most Americans. Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Cup Cakes will be with us forever, maybe as long as the 1/2 life of Uranium-238.

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Old 11-22-2012, 01:38 PM
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Just add "BIMBO" before hostess on the front and "Hecho en Mexico" or a "right-to-work" state on the back. Situation cleared....
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:20 PM
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