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Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
can't be all good if he allows evil that he knows about and is powerful enough to prevent. after all, we say "all it takes from evil to triumph is good men to do nothing" .... why does god get an exception.
So in reference to my example if YOU were God... What would you do?

1. Would you feed that hungry child?
2. Would you manipulate the mind of that cheating spouse?
3. Would you help the guy about to stub his toe?

You didn't address my response at all did you?
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #141 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstreit View Post
So in reference to my example if YOU were God... What would you do?

1. Would you feed that hungry child?
2. Would you manipulate the mind of that cheating spouse?
3. Would you help the guy about to stub his toe?

You didn't address my response at all did you?
its not a matter of what i would do, i am not all powerful, all knowing and omni-benevolent.

i am just a mere man, with only the power and knowledge i possess. but i do with that power try to minimize evil and prevent it when and where i can. and people who don't, are generally regarded as bad people.

why does god get a pass? why does he get a special exemption from moral condemnation for allowing massive evil? how can that be defined as omni-benevolent?

if a person knew about and had the the power to stop 9/11, and did not ... what would you say to him?

why arn't you saying that to god right now?

Last edited by cockerpunk; 01-04-2013 at 11:45 AM..
Old 01-04-2013, 11:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #142 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
we do have hundreds of examples.

my personal favorite is a species of bacteria that consumes nylon, something that was never seen on planet earth before 1935.


No, you don't. You have a paltry few, so what? It's a good start, but if what you're saying is true, then it happened thousands and thousands of times. You should have no difficulty in producing several hundred for us?

Please no fakes and Hollywood props don't count either.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:43 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #143 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
its not a matter of what i would do, i am not all powerful, all knowing and omni-benevolent.

i am just a mere man, with only the power and knowledge i possess. but i do with that power try to minimize evil and prevent it when and where i can. and people who don't, are generally regarded as bad people.

why does god get a pass? why does he get a special exemption from moral condemnation for allowing massive evil? how can that be defined as omni-benevolent?

if a person knew about and had the the power to stop 9/11, and did not ... what would you say to him?

why arn't you saying that to god right now?
So now you know the mind of God?

How absurd!

There is no problem with evil here, this is a fallen world. Satan is ruling here, with only God's restraining. What you are asking for hasn't come. That will be the second coming of God the Son, Jesus the Christ.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:46 PM
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Famous last words of an athiest when he knows he's going to die........"Oh My God" !?!?
Old 01-04-2013, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cstreit View Post
At no point does God state that he will help you in this life IMO. I believe, as do many religous or not, that mankind is motivated by strife and conflict. .
Considering that what...approx 90% of the worlds population is religious this does not surprise me one bit. Everywhere you lot go, strife and conflict seems to be the order of the day.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ckelly78z View Post
Famous last words of an athiest when he knows he's going to die........"Oh My God" !?!?
Probably....as an Athiest I always use that phrase......it means no more to me than "Holy sh$t"
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dewolf View Post
Considering that what...approx 90% of the worlds population is religious this does not surprise me one bit. Everywhere you lot go, strife and conflict seems to be the order of the day.
You think its 90%? Wow I was thinking a number closer to 40% in Canada.....not sure about the rest of the world. Would be interesting to find actual non-skewed numbers.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ckelly78z View Post
Famous last words of an athiest when he knows he's going to die........"Oh My God" !?!?
Only because it sounds better than "Oh My Dawkins"
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dewolf View Post
Only because it sounds better than "Oh My Dawkins"
OMD!!!! I am so going to use that!!! LMFAO!!!!
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by stuartj View Post
Sure. As an intelligent man, and a Mensa member, you must grapple with the incongruence though.



And because youre also a Mod, bear in mind that this photograh won a Pulitzer Prize.
I would like to know if the "Pulitzer prize" winning photographer provided any aid to this child?
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by matt f View Post
I would like to know if the "Pulitzer prize" winning photographer provided any aid to this child?
Whats with the "quotes"? Are you suggesting this isnt true or are you trying to insinuate someting about "Pulitzer Prizes". Or are you just being a "nob"?

Kevin Carter. Let me google that for you.

Vulture Stalking a Child « Iconic Photos

In March 1993, photographer Kevin Carter made a trip to southern Sudan, where he took now iconic photo of a vulture preying upon an emaciated Sudanese toddler near the village of Ayod. Carter said he waited about 20 minutes, hoping that the vulture would spread its wings. It didn’t. Carter snapped the haunting photograph and chased the vulture away. (The parents of the girl were busy taking food from the same UN plane Carter took to Ayod).

The photograph was sold to The New York Times where it appeared for the first time on March 26, 1993 as ‘metaphor for Africa’s despair’. Practically overnight hundreds of people contacted the newspaper to ask whether the child had survived, leading the newspaper to run an unusual special editor’s note saying the girl had enough strength to walk away from the vulture, but that her ultimate fate was unknown. Journalists in the Sudan were told not to touch the famine victims, because of the risk of transmitting disease, but Carter came under criticism for not helping the girl. ”The man adjusting his lens to take just the right frame of her suffering might just as well be a predator, another vulture on the scene,” read one editorial.

Carter eventually won the Pulitzer Prize for this photo, but he couldn’t enjoy it. “I’m really, really sorry I didn’t pick the child up,” he confided in a friend. Consumed with the violence he’d witnessed, and haunted by the questions as to the little girl’s fate, he committed suicide three months later.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstreit View Post
So in reference to my example if YOU were God... What would you do?

1. Would you feed that hungry child?
2. Would you manipulate the mind of that cheating spouse?
3. Would you help the guy about to stub his toe?

You didn't address my response at all did you?
Chris.

If you were created by perfect all knowing God who could give endless life in a perfect world, wouldnt you be there already? Instead here trying to pass stupid tests He already knows the outcomes of anyway?

There is no free will if your God is omniscient. If there is free will your God is not omniscient.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cstreit View Post
We have to be allowed to have free-will and choice, consequence good or bad, just as the parents of that child above chose to bear a child knowing they could not feed him. It's horrible and tragic, and was their (poor) choice.
How can you possibly know anything of the circumstances of the parent/s or family of that child in the Sudan in 1993?

A First World judgment?
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:38 PM
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Thank you for answering.
I appreciate the assistance with the google of the photographer. I didn't know his name.
The article states he couldn't live with his decision not to help the child, that answers my question.
Tragic on several levels.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt f View Post
I would like to know if the "Pulitzer prize" winning photographer provided any aid to this child?

No, IIRC, he committed suicide...



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Old 01-04-2013, 08:49 PM
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No, IIRC, he committed suicide...



KT
Thanks Trekkor.
Another poster was kind enough to google it for me, after he called me a "nob".
Nob?
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt f View Post
Thank you for answering.
I appreciate the assistance with the google of the photographer. I didn't know his name.
The article states he couldn't live with his decision not to help the child, that answers my question.
Tragic on several levels.
And there you have it. A 'mere mortal' is haunted to point of taking his own life. The imperfect fallen beings that we are. Yet your god has no trouble allowing this to happen every single minute of the day.
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In Heaven… the mechanics are German, the chefs are French, the police are British, the lovers are Italian and everything is organized by the Swiss.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by matt f View Post
Thanks Trekkor.
Another poster was kind enough to google it for me, after he called me a "nob".
Nob?
Actually if you read that correctly he did not call you a 'nob'. He asked if you were just being one. Big difference.
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In Heaven… the mechanics are German, the chefs are French, the police are British, the lovers are Italian and everything is organized by the Swiss.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:02 PM
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The photographer took an amazing pic but should have done something, anything just as any one of us would have done and he did relize it. So God is in the Photographer's position always. Being all powerful God can correct the mistakes and make all good? Wow! You have a really interesting view of God...

So you think of God as a technician, a mechanic, a builder as well as a CEO of the soul? Its really interesting, I have looked at the very notion of God and compared it to humans technoligical advances as well as our emperical veiw of the universe and relaity. It tracks perfectly that the more sophisticated a culture becomes technically, the greater the impression of God becomes as a creator of sorts - a technican, an assembler. Cultures and societies that are not as technically or scientifically advanced have a view of God that is more spiritual and the universe was not assembled but rather started as a whole and devided up.

Our impression of God seems to have a direct relationship to what we begin to undertand about the world around us. It is no wonder that neuro-surgeons, nuclear physicists and the like actually do have a strong belief in God. They witness fantastics displays daily and it sure does seem like God has a hand in it. But what of this view of God is wrong. Just plain wrong? What if we unwittingly have placed our emperisists views in place of the true nature of God?
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:03 PM
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