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TomoNews | Tim Cook says Apple ain't building a backdoor for the Feds in San Bernardino case
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #201 (permalink)
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whoa, isn't McAfee like a drug riddled suspected murderer crazy person?

Maybe he likes the taste of old Nikes...

It is interesting that he confirms monkey's musing that the really good people in the business 'smoke weed at their desk and don't work for less than 1/2m a year.'
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxpaws View Post
whoa, isn't McAfee like a drug riddled suspected murderer crazy person?

Maybe he likes the taste of old Nikes...

It is interesting that he confirms monkey's musing that the really good people in the business 'smoke weed at their desk and don't work for less than 1/2m a year.'
Yeah, crazy guy. Doubt if FBI would trust him but thats not the point. the video above was made by the Taiwanese poking fun at the FBI, not good..... When I was in college there were 2 brothers I knew in an engineering class that studied high and took the test high. They set the curve at 100 which made it tough for guys like me. Then they would charge people(me) to tutor them to get through the class
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:10 PM
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No, Apple Has Not Unlocked 70 iPhones For Law Enforcement | TechCrunch
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:20 PM
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Splitting a hair ... a difference w/o much distinction.

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It has not unlocked these iPhones — it has extracted data [contacts, photos, calls and iMessages] that was accessible while they were still locked. ...[getting] contacts, photos, calls and iMessages without unlocking the phones.
Like the locks on your front door weren't broken by the thief - he got your stuff thru the window; ergo the house locks are still secure.
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Last edited by island911; 02-19-2016 at 05:38 AM..
Old 02-19-2016, 05:24 AM
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Apple can comply with the FBI court order

I see your blog Enzo and raise you.
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Old 02-19-2016, 05:46 AM
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Apple can comply with the FBI court order

I see your blog Enzo and raise you.
Apple never said they can't, they said they won't, and that is the correct call, IMHO.

YMMV
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Old 02-19-2016, 06:05 AM
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stomach, I have seen concerns of

"if apple gives the govt the "keys" then all iphones world wide could be hacked if the "keys" are leaked/stolen from the govt"

"apple doesn't have to provide its services to the govt, can't be compelled to"

What are your concerns?

I would think a compromise where Apple retains the secret "keys" while the data extracted would be turned over to the govt.

I am a strong privacy advocate but am having a hard time understanding the protections being afforded the terrorists.
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Old 02-19-2016, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bivenator View Post
I would think a compromise where Apple retains the secret "keys" while the data extracted would be turned over to the govt.

I am a strong privacy advocate but am having a hard time understanding the protections being afforded the terrorists.
+1
On this one we agree.
But, given their thorough efforts to cover their tracks I doubt that they left anything valuable on the iPhone. This particular case is academic, but it's a good place to start the conversation for future action.
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Old 02-19-2016, 08:04 AM
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Carol Adams gets it. Apple should take this all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court if need be... Mom who lost son in San Bernardino sides with Apple | New York Post
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Old 02-19-2016, 08:10 AM
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What keys can apple give away???

The only key that apple has is their identifier to verify that apple is actually the one sending an update and the phone can trust that update. Apple has chosen to be the trusted agent for the end user so that people don't have to do due diligence on an update that it is clean. That has NOTHING to do with the security of the information on the phone...that is strictly a function of the strength of the passcode (number of digits). Ask the android platform.

IMHO, this is one of the things that makes the iPhone popular. You don't have to invest time in it. Its an appliance. There are some who still enjoy doing everything about their computer. I personally don't. Never did. I hated doing reg edits to get a new video card to work. Some like to work on cars, some pay for it cause they want to do something else with their time.
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Old 02-19-2016, 08:56 AM
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I use the word "key" as a short cut. Here is some info from the article that I linked to in a previous post. I suppose the SIF file mentioned would be the "key"

Provide] the FBI with a signed iPhone Software file, recovery bundle, or other Software Image File (“SIF”) that can be loaded onto the SUBJECT DEVICE. The SIF will load and run from Random Access Memory (“RAM”) and will not modify the iOS on the actual phone, the user data partition or system partition on the device’s flash memory. The SIF will be coded by Apple with a unique identifier of the phone so that the SIF would only load and execute on the SUBJECT DEVICE. The SIF will be loaded via Device Firmware Upgrade (“DFU”) mode, recovery mode, or other applicable mode available to the FBI. Once active on the SUBJECT DEVICE, the SIF will accomplish the three functions specified in paragraph 2. The SIF will be loaded on the SUBJECT DEVICE at either a government facility, or alternatively, at an Apple facility; if the latter, Apple shall provide the government with remote access to the SUBJECT DEVICE through a computer allowed the government to conduct passcode recovery analysis.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bivenator View Post
stomach, I have seen concerns of

"if apple gives the govt the "keys" then all iphones world wide could be hacked if the "keys" are leaked/stolen from the govt"

"apple doesn't have to provide its services to the govt, can't be compelled to"

What are your concerns?

I would think a compromise where Apple retains the secret "keys" while the data extracted would be turned over to the govt.

I am a strong privacy advocate but am having a hard time understanding the protections being afforded the terrorists.
Lets start back at square one.

There are no keys to give.

There are two parts to encryption. The encryption algorithm and the key.

The key is nothing more than a string of characters that the encryption algorithm uses to encrypt the data.

A simple algorithm would be, take the number that represents a character in it's order in the alphabet and multiply it by a value.

The value is the key. Let's call it 2.

ABC would be encrypted and represented as 246.

Obviously the more complex the algorithm and key the better the encryption.

What Apple have done is integrated the pin code, theoretically only known to the legitimate owner, as part of the key.

This is why Apple does not know what the key is, the user sets it.

Now since there are a finite number of possible pin codes a user could create the key is without a doubt discoverable were someone to run through every possible combination.

To thwart that Apple implemented a protocol that says, we are giving you 10 shots and 10 shots only at getting it right. After 10 wrong tries we are reasonably sure that you are not the owner and we wipe the device to protect the owner."

The FED want Apple to create a tool, that currently does not exist, that disables the 10 try limit.

What that does is makes the key, with enough time and patience, discoverable.

Once that tool is created and known to work it will be replicated by someone, my guess is the Chinese will figure it out first. And probably not even the Chinese government. The far east is the de-facto hotbed off criminal enterprise hackers.

It will undo all the work that Apple put into creating the securest system that they could.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but it is a far bigger deal than a dead terrorists phone that "may" contain "something" and the phone is not the FEDs primary motivation.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bivenator View Post

Provide] the FBI with a signed iPhone Software file, recovery bundle, or other Software Image File (“SIF”) that can be loaded onto the SUBJECT DEVICE. The SIF will load and run from Random Access Memory (“RAM”) and will not modify the iOS on the actual phone, the user data partition or system partition on the device’s flash memory. The SIF will be coded by Apple with a unique identifier of the phone so that the SIF would only load and execute on the SUBJECT DEVICE. The SIF will be loaded via Device Firmware Upgrade (“DFU”) mode, recovery mode, or other applicable mode available to the FBI. Once active on the SUBJECT DEVICE, the SIF will accomplish the three functions specified in paragraph 2. The SIF will be loaded on the SUBJECT DEVICE at either a government facility, or alternatively, at an Apple facility; if the latter, Apple shall provide the government with remote access to the SUBJECT DEVICE through a computer allowed the government to conduct passcode recovery analysis.
See that is scary.

They want a way that does not modify the operating system that can be run remotely?

Every black hat in the world would have multiple orgasms if they knew that were possible.

**** that, hell no. That's a nightmare scenario.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:26 AM
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They want to set a precedent that there shouldn’t be locks they can’t break.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:50 AM
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I appreciate you taking the time to explain the technical side of this, it has been very informative.


You said that Apple could make this happen but that is correct in not making it happen.

My understanding is that physical possession of the phone is needed in order to work on the unlocking the passcode. If that is the case then fears of Chinese hackers accessing our phones is overblown. If you believe that Chinese hackers are working on this now then I think it would be prudent to be the first to be able to unlock the phones. Are we worried that street level criminals would be able to unlock stolen phones in order to gain access to banking and other important info on the phone? Seems to me that steps similar to having to cancel stolen credit cards would be taken..

I would never ever put anything on my phone that has banking or any other info that I would like to keep private as I assume most everything on the internet can be compromised in some way.

Thanks for beating the dead horse with me, I am not set on siding with the govt and have found your posts useful.
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:50 AM
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SM and Bi:
Apple is not being asked to upset or modify the encryption. They literally cant do that.

What the FBI wants is to reload the firmware with one that has disabled the 10 tries to wipe feature so the FBI can use a very large computer to brute force entry.

To load that firmware they need apples 'this is a legit update' signature (key). The text you provided also states that the FBI wants the update to be unique to that phone and that phone only (cause that is all the gov has a warrant for). The remote access is so that if apple has to do the firmware at an apple lab, the gov can hook to their monster cluster to brute force the encryption.

As I said before, if you care about your data use a passcode bigger than 15 digits. Quantum computers are like fusion. Just around the corner. The annealing model is interesting, but local tunneling only gets you so many bits...
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:10 AM
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The Justice Department is pushing forward with its legal fight against Apple, urging a federal judge to compel the tech giant to help the FBI crack open a cellphone left behind by one of the San Bernardino, California, shooters.

"Rather than assist the effort to fully investigate a deadly terrorist attack by obeying this court's [previous order], Apple has responded by publicly repudiating that order," prosecutors wrote in a new filing today
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Old 02-19-2016, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadd View Post
SM and Bi:
Apple is not being asked to upset or modify the encryption. They literally cant do that.

What the FBI wants is to reload the firmware with one that has disabled the 10 tries to wipe feature so the FBI can use a very large computer to brute force entry.

To load that firmware they need apples 'this is a legit update' signature (key). The text you provided also states that the FBI wants the update to be unique to that phone and that phone only (cause that is all the gov has a warrant for). The remote access is so that if apple has to do the firmware at an apple lab, the gov can hook to their monster cluster to brute force the encryption.

As I said before, if you care about your data use a passcode bigger than 15 digits. Quantum computers are like fusion. Just around the corner. The annealing model is interesting, but local tunneling only gets you so many bits...

I'm well aware they are not asking to break the encryption, I've said about 20 x's in both these threads that the encryption is not an issue once you get the pin.

The methods the FED are suggesting should scare the crap out of anyone.

Really look at them and think about them.

Right now everyone is saying "what's the big deal? you need to have the physical device"

The FED are very obviously asking for a remote option.

They want to load a small piece of firmware via USB and want bluetooth or wireless access.

Think about that.

Should not take you more than 5 minutes to figure out why that's scary as ****.
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Old 02-19-2016, 01:31 PM
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Apple Likely to Invoke Free-Speech Rights in Encryption Fight | Fox Business
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Old 02-19-2016, 01:56 PM
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