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Taunter of Asshats
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahawk View Post
You guys need a Blue Dress, stat.
They have them, but can only find democrat DNA.....
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Seahawk View Post
You guys need a Blue Dress, stat.

Because THAT is entertainment.
That's it exactly! The reason for Mueller and a thorough investigation. Not for entertainment of course but to determine if a Presidential campaign colluded with an enemy of the U.S. to influence the election.

True, on the surface that is less important than Whitewater real estate investments but important enough to come to a conclusion on what happened.

So far we have:

Manafort "quitting" because of connections with Russia.

Flynn lying about connections with Russia.

Sessions lying about connections with Russia

Don Jr., Manafort and Kushner meeting with Russians to get damaging information about Clinton

Don Jr. lying about who was in the room during the Russian meeting

The head of the CIA being fired for pursuing Russian connections with the Tramp campaign

I'm sure there's more that I can't remember off the top of my head. It would be nice to have a list of all the lies told so far. This is becoming Nixonian where the cover-up becomes the crime.


We are at an important point in the investigation where people will start to talk. Only then can Mueller say with confidence on what, if anything, happened.

The entertainment is folks following a spoon-fed narrative and employing far-fetched rationalizations they deplored just a few short months ago.
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Last edited by Shaun @ Tru6; 07-16-2017 at 10:13 AM..
Old 07-16-2017, 10:10 AM
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They have them, but can only find democrat DNA.....
That would be perfect if Democrats were also found to be involved and indicted. We need at least one more and probably 2 more parties in this country. And all money out of government elections. That would go a long way to fixing the country.
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:13 AM
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Get a Blue Dress. The Progressives are getting boring.



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Old 07-16-2017, 10:30 AM
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Let me help you understand things. Bold words are mine:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 View Post
The reason for Mueller and a thorough investigation. Not for entertainment of course but to make it more difficult for the trump administration to get anything accomplished and to deflect the public attention away from the recent failures of the Democratic party and to try to manage the political narrative.

So far we have:

Manafort "quitting" because of endless media bashing about his ties to Russia, which are really more like ties to Ukraine. Ukraine is not Russia and the two countries hate each other. Manafort was brought in to help Trump secure the nomination and after that, his political baggage outweighed his usefulness.

Flynn lying about getting paid for speeches, essentially.

Sessions lying about connections with Russia. If you think his "meetings" with "Russians" were improper, then you're an idiot. I frequent a cheese store that is allegedly owned by a Russian and I have nothing to do with the Trump campaign or administration. Should that scare you at night? It would seem so

Don Jr., Manafort and Kushner meeting with Russians to get damaging information about Clinton, which any Democrat would have done if the shoe were on the other foot, as it breaks no laws whatsoever. Note that plenty of Democrats met with this same lawyer and Trump did nothing with the information he got, since none of it was about the election anyway.

Don Jr. lying about who was in the room during the Russian meeting. I have attended many meetings and now I couldn't recall who was in all of them, either. I bet for every meeting I have, he has 50. Literally, much ado about absolutely nothing.

The head of the FBI being fired for pursuing Russian connections with the Tramp campaign; either that or just never getting to the bottom of anything, leaking damaging information and concealing exculpatory information. Trump had no problem with the investigation, per se, he had a problem with it dragging one forever and not finishing. Remember, it started a year ago and hasn't yielded a single charge against anyone.

It would be nice to have a list of all the lies told so far. This is becoming absurd where the endless, accusations are such that none of them could rise to the level of a crime.
The thing you don't get is that the Democrats in power know this will never go anywhere but the constant harassment will do some damage anyway. If you can't win a fight (they can't) try to inflict as much pain as you can for as long as you can.

It's a shame that the current incarnation of the Democratic party has stopped to these new lows but I'm convinced that they are, nearly to a man, the most immoral, corrupt, reckless political party that has ever existed in this country. Pursuing their current agenda, regardless of the damage it does to the country, is treasonous.

JR

Last edited by javadog; 07-16-2017 at 10:36 AM..
Old 07-16-2017, 10:31 AM
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What would you do knowing that the 99% predicted winner of the next Presidential election is colluding with the Russians?
Report it to the FBI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahawk View Post
Be honest: What would the WaPo and the NYT do?
I expect the Times would handle it the same way they handled the Clinton email controversy.
The TIMES was the first to report the story. Because of their story the FBI and the republican congress started their investigations. It wasn't Breitbart, or infowars, or fox or any of your coveted "honest" news outlets, it was the NEW YORK TIMES. that broke the story.


New York Times Reporter Explains How He Broke Clinton Email Story | HuffPost

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/31/opinion/why-clintons-emails-matter.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/us/politics/hillary-clintons-use-of-private-email-at-state-department-raises-flags.html
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:33 AM
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The net-net is the Trump campaign has had significant ties to Russia and has lied about it.

JR, what did Al Gore do when he was sent the Bush debate brief book?

What did Christopher Wray say should be done in the situation that Paul Manafort, Kushner and Trump Jr. found themselves in?

I don't think "the other guys would do it" is a valid reason for your team to do it. Or do you want to be as bad as the Democrats because that's the basis for this argument.
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:38 AM
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The thing you don't get is that the Democrats in power know this will never go anywhere but the constant harassment will do some damage anyway.
You guys just can't stop feeling like victims, can you? Republicans own the Senate, the House, and the White House, but somehow it is the Democrats who have the power to keep these investigations going?
No.
If McConnell and Ryan wanted to stop the investigations tomorrow they could do it. Trump could tell his DOJ to drop the matter tomorrow. The house and senate investigations are continuing because the republicans in power still have some shred of civic responsibility. I would not be surprised if Trump called off the DOJ because he has no concept of a responsibility to his country.
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:40 AM
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Forgot Kushner lying about who he's seen which is how we got Don Jr. after he amended his report.


Manafort "quitting" because of connections with Russia.

Flynn lying about connections with Russia.

Sessions lying about connections with Russia

Don Jr., Manafort and Kushner meeting with Russians to get damaging information about Clinton

Don Jr. lying about who was in the room during the Russian meeting

The head of the CIA being fired for pursuing Russian connections with the Tramp campaign

Kushner wanting secret back channel to Russia

Kushner lied on Security Clearance forms


Tell me again why a full investigation is not warranted?
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 View Post
The net-net is the Trump campaign has had significant ties to Russia and has lied about it.

JR, what did Al Gore do when he was sent the Bush debate brief book?

What did Christopher Wray say should be done in the situation that Paul Manafort, Kushner and Trump Jr. found themselves in?

I don't think "the other guys would do it" is a valid reason for your team to do it. Or do you want to be as bad as the Democrats because that's the basis for this argument.
You have to prove it. One question that I can't get past: They had the meeting at Trump Towers. Doesn't that seem odd to you conspiracy nuts?

Here is an interesting opinion piece: A witch hunt? | Power Line

1) Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner did nothing wrong by meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian offering dirt on Hillary Clinton. The emails requesting the meeting specifically mentioned a “Russian government attorney” and added that the requested meeting concerned “very high level and sensitive information” … that “is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.” That doesn’t prove a willingness to collude.

It proves a willingness to accept “incriminating information” from dubious sources on Trump’s presidential rival. It does not prove a “willingness to collude” in any meaningful sense and, despite the hysteria, there is no evidence of “collusion” to date.

2) Concern about Paul Manafort’s extensive links with Vladimir Putin’s former puppet in Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, including at least $12.7 million in payments, is, to quote Manafort’s words, “silly and nonsensical.”

The latest New York Times story on Manafort’s work for Viktor Yanukovych is Andrew Kramer’s article in this morning’s paper. Manafort departed the Trump campaign on August 19. You seem to be saying that Manafort should be investigated for the payments he received from Y.’s party. Maybe, but nothing in the most recent Times article seems to support the proposition. Even so, this seems to me far afield from the “collusion” hysteria.

3) That Jared Kushner’s attempt, during the transition, to secure a back channel with the Russian government using their secure communications equipment in the Russian embassy was not alarming/inexplicable.

An explanation is warranted and I would like to hear it.

4) That Donald Trump’s stubborn refusal ever to breathe a critical word about Vladimir Putin, even as he has freely criticized U.S. allies, or acknowledge Russian meddling in our election, is not strange.

I thought it was strange during the campaign and found it troubling. I have been reassured by Trump’s policies in office that subvert Russia’s interests. I am grateful that he is undoing key Obama administration policies that served Putin’s interests. I think Trump’s policies (and personnel, for that matter) belie the “collusion” hysteria.

5) That Michael Flynn’s firing after less than a month on the job was really just because he had misled Mike Pence.

You imply that there was another reason. It never occurred to me that there was. I was hoping you would tell me what I am missing.

6) That Donald Trump’s pressure on James Comey to go soft on Michael Flynn was purely a measure of loyalty and friendship from a person who has rarely shown those traits before.

You imply that there was another reason. Maybe there was. I don’t know.

7) That Comey’s firing, at least according to evolving White House accounts, was due to his mishandling of the Clinton file — no, wait. It was due to poor management of the FBI, which was suffering from low morale — uh, no. It was because of two factual errors Comey made in congressional testimony. Finally, that it was really over the “Russia thing” — but only because Trump was an innocent man frustrated by Comey’s unwillingness to clear him publicly.

Honesty is not Trump’s default mode. The implication of your question is that Trump fired Comey to kill investigation into the “Russia thing.” I have no reason to believe Trump thought he could kill investigation into the “Russia thing” by firing Comey.

8) That it was irrelevant that Trump told the Russian ambassador and foreign minister in the Oval Office the day after Comey’s sacking that the FBI director was a “nut job” whose removal had relieved “great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

These comments tell against my response to 7) above.

9) It’s pure coincidence that one of the only foreign policy advisers on the Trump campaign was Carter Page, who was under FBI investigation for Russia ties. In Moscow, he gave a speech denouncing U.S. policy, saying, “Washington and other Western capitals have impeded potential progress through their often hypocritical focus on ideas such as democratization, inequality, corruption and regime change.” Anti-anti-corruption isn’t disturbing.

Carter Page had virtually nothing to do with the Trump campaign. As I say, I look to the policies the Trump administration has actually implemented to date.

10) That White House objections to sanctions against Russia, which passed the Senate 98-2, are purely procedural.

I think the executive branch always seeks to preserve its discretion to waive sanctions in the furtherance of foreign policy. That is how I understand the substantive White House critique of the sanctions bill. I don’t think the White House critique of the sanctions bill has anything to do with “collusion.”

11) That former Manafort partner and Trump surrogate Roger Stone, who boasted about links to WikiLeaks founder and America-hater Julian Assange, and accurately predicted in August 2016 that John Podesta would be next “in the barrel,” was just lucky.

This seems to be an Adam Schiff special. I will rest on the analysis of FactCheck by Robert Faricy.

12) That statements by Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr. about Russian financial ties are not revealing. Golf writer James Dodson quoted Eric as explaining in 2014 how the Trump organization was able to get financing for various golf courses even after the Great Recession. “Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programs. We just go there all the time.” Donald Trump Jr., who also traveled to Russia frequently, spoke at a 2008 real estate conference and noted that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.” When Donald Trump stated, “I have zero investments in Russia,” he did not say that Russia had zero investments in him, but we should believe his other claim, “I have nothing to do with Russia.”

If this is one of the predicates of Mueller’s investigation, it seems to me illustrative of the “witch hunt” that Andy McCarthy describes.

13) That President Trump’s failure to release his tax returns, despite repeated promises to do so, is because he is under audit.

I don’t think Trump’s failure to release his tax returns has anything to do with the audit. I think the returns would prove embarrassing for political reasons that I doubt have anything to do with the “collusion” hysteria.

14) That it’s unremarkable that presidential spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders refuses to say whether Russia is an adversary, a friend or a nation about whom we should be wary.

I find it lamentable and worthy of note, but I look to administration policies to ascertain the reality of Trump’s views.

15) That Donald Trump is the first president since 1949 to cast doubt on America’s commitment to NATO, but this is overdue and good for the U.S.

Again, I look to administration policies to ascertain the reality of Trump’s views.

16) That Donald Trump’s obsessive attacks on “fake news” are not an attempt to inoculate himself against future revelations but just good old-fashioned right-wing hatred of liberals.

I think the Democrats and their media adjunct reject the legitimacy of the Trump presidency. I think they have jointly undertaken the project of removing Trump from office. Trump’s critique of CNN et al. has much of substance to it and is a legitimate form of political self-defense.


Again and for the last time: Prove collusion and I'll get the rope.
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:48 AM
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You guys just can't stop feeling like victims, can you? Republicans own the Senate, the House, and the White House, but somehow it is the Democrats who have the power to keep these investigations going?
No.
If McConnell and Ryan wanted to stop the investigations tomorrow they could do it. Trump could tell his DOJ to drop the matter tomorrow. The house and senate investigations are continuing because the republicans in power still have some shred of civic responsibility. I would not be surprised if Trump called off the DOJ because he has no concept of a responsibility to his country.
Let's take a closer look at your statement. The fact that the Republicans "control" Congress is a little misleading. They don't have enough of a margin in the Senate to get around the filibuster, so they don't really control the Senate. They may do so in the House, but the House can't do a ****ing thing on its own, if they can't also get it through the Senate, nothing gets done. So in fact neither party really has 100% control.

Power is a funny thing. There may be ways that either Congress or the administration could stop certain investigations, but the political price paid to do that would be enormous. Given that most politicians act like politicians, that's never going to happen.

Frankly, I think it would be nice if the Democrats just woke up one morning and decided to do something useful for the country, instead of trying to tear it completely apart.
Old 07-16-2017, 11:06 AM
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My comments in bold:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 View Post
The net-net is the Trump campaign has had significant ties to Russia and has lied about it.

None of which are a crime, so get your panties out of your crack.

JR, what did Al Gore do when he was sent the Bush debate brief book?

Most likely, he used it as further evidence of global warming, or climate change, or whatever he calls it today. It's also possible he colored in it with crayons.


What did Christopher Wray say should be done in the situation that Paul Manafort, Kushner and Trump Jr. found themselves in?

I don't know. Given that he's not their lawyer, they probably don't care either. Opinions are like *******s, every one has one and none of them are worth much.

I don't think "the other guys would do it" is a valid reason for your team to do it. Or do you want to be as bad as the Democrats because that's the basis for this argument.

I'm just sick of the hypocrisy of the Democratic party. I'm not so much as using it as an excuse for the behavior of others, I'm just sick of the Democrats making such a fuss about things they do as well. One of the things that mystifies me so much about the Democrats is how they complain so much about things they are guilty of doing. You'd think they would not want to draw any attention to these things, but then they probably don't have any functioning neural pathways between the left and right sides of their brains.
Old 07-16-2017, 11:15 AM
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Power is a funny thing. There may be ways that either Congress or the administration could stop certain investigations, but the political price paid to do that would be enormous.
Exactly, so stop whining about these investigations being about the "Democrats in power." The republicans in power are continuing the investigations because, to be charitable, they have a sense of civic responsibility OR, to be cynical, they are afraid of the backlash if they stop them.

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Frankly, I think it would be nice if the Democrats just woke up one morning and decided to do something useful for the country, instead of trying to tear it completely apart.
Passing the ACA and getting us that one step closer to single payer health insurance in this country was a HUGELY useful step. Republicans who are trying to tear that apart, and thank God so far they are failing.
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:25 AM
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You have to prove it.

Again and for the last time: Prove collusion and I'll get the rope.

Why are you against the investigation?

The investigation is ongoing to prove collusion.

Just a week ago we just had a lot of Trump campaign and the Attorney General lying about connections with Russia.

Today we have Trump Jr., Kushner and Manafort meeting with Russians for the purpose of getting information harmful to Clinton during the campaign.

Whether you call it collusion like Krauthammer does or not, you can't deny that it is a big step in proving collusion. That's what you want, proof of collusion. That's what Mueller and Congress are doing. Determining if there was collusion and then proving it.
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:25 AM
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My comments in bold:
JR, again, you seem to want to be as bad as the Democrats. You are doing exactly what your last para says.

I am fortunate to be an Independent and find hyper-partisanship odd.

Christopher Wrap is Trump's candidate to head the FBI. So his opinion counts.

Did you look up what Gore did? That's the standard.
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:29 AM
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Exactly, so stop whining about these investigations being about the "Democrats in power." The republicans in power are continuing the investigations because, to be charitable, they have a sense of civic responsibility OR, to be cynical, they are afraid of the backlash if they stop them.


Passing the ACA and getting us that one step closer to single payer health insurance in this country was a HUGELY useful step. Republicans who are trying to tear that apart, and thank God so far they are failing.

I never said "these investigations (were) being about the Democrats in power." I said that they are a waste of time and money and the Democrats need to quit promoting this sort of bull****. They have a job to do and they are not doing it. They are also preventing the Republicans from getting much done.

Having spent some years in the medical business, let me tell you that a single payer healthcare system will reduce the quality of care in this country and increase the overall costs. Anybody that thinks otherwise doesn't know enough about healthcare to talk about it.

JR
Old 07-16-2017, 11:39 AM
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I never said "these investigations (were) being about the Democrats in power." I said that they are a waste of time and money and the Democrats need to quit promoting this sort of bull****.
You said, "The thing you don't get is that the Democrats in power know this will never go anywhere but the constant harassment will do some damage anyway."
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:44 AM
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JR, again, you seem to want to be as bad as the Democrats. You are doing exactly what your last para says.
No, I'm not. Read it again, carefully. Think about which party is making the most useless noise in the current political narrative.

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Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 View Post
Christopher Wrap is Trump's candidate to head the FBI. So his opinion counts.
No, opinions are irrelevant, regardless of who speaks them. Facts matter. There is no crime, here. Feel free to quote me a Federal statute that you'd use to prosecute Trump Jr. et al.

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Did you look up what Gore did?
No. I wouldn't let my dog piss on that idiot if he were on fire, so I am not going to waste my Sunday on him. I can think of hundreds of other people whose opinions and actions would not matter in this context. Again, it's irrelevant to the discussion.
Old 07-16-2017, 11:45 AM
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You said, "The thing you don't get is that the Democrats in power know this will never go anywhere but the constant harassment will do some damage anyway."
Meaning that those Democrats that are in a position to have the inside information that we all lack know that this will go nowhere. Yet, they continue to get in front of every microphone that is turned on to put forth lies, innuendos and noise. The lesser Democrats ape the comments of the annointed Democrats. The media Democrats trip over themselves trying to add their useless two cents, Soros and others like him fund and promote anarchy, etc.

None of them are doing anything useful for the country and everything they do does it considerable harm.

It's not about them being in power, it's about them not doing what they should be doing.

JR
Old 07-16-2017, 11:50 AM
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No, I'm not. Read it again, carefully. Think about which party is making the most useless noise in the current political narrative.



No, opinions are irrelevant, regardless of who speaks them. Facts matter. There is no crime, here. Feel free to quote me a Federal statute that you'd use to prosecute Trump Jr. et al.



No. I wouldn't let my dog piss on that idiot if he were on fire, so I am not going to waste my Sunday on him. I can think of hundreds of other people whose opinions and actions would not matter in this context. Again, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

Current. That's the crux of the matter. But I have re-read it. You want the Republicans to be as bad as the Democrats. I am tired of both parties. To think that one is better than the other is preposterous.

The man who will be our next head of the FBI said Trump Jr., Manafort and Kushner should have immediately contacted the FBI. This transcends the law and is about what is right and wrong and what will happen when the tables are turned which they most certainly will be. You have to think farther ahead than 5 minutes in a case like this. We can all be sure that if the Russians helped Hillary win, Wayne would have to buy a Google-sized server farm for all of the Right Wing outrage posting.

Al Gore contacted the FBI when his campaign received Bush's debate prep.
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