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Shaun @ Tru6's Avatar
 
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It will be interesting to see who joins Krauthammer and Shepard Smith as time goes by.

Mueller hasn't released anything yet, either.
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Old 07-16-2017, 06:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 View Post
JR, perspective is important. How long did Whitewater take? How about Benghazi, how long did the Benghazi investigation go on for?

In a year we have several Trump campaign officials and the USAG both meeting with and lying about meeting with the Russians. Want to make the investigation go faster? Have the Trump campaign not lie and tell the world everything it knows.

Trump Jr. was on Hannity the other night. He laid out who was at the meeting, Hannity asked if that was all, Trump Jr. said that was all, then we find out Trump Jr. "forgot" about a few more people at the meeting.

The problem with the Trump campaign lying is causing this to drag on more than anything else.
Whitewater took years. You can say it took 8 years, but that's because it morphed into all sorts of directions. That's the trouble with an independent counsel. These investigations start out in one direction and turn into fishing expeditions. I think we wasted something like $80 million, or so, on all of that. You get YOUR money's worth?

Benghazi didn't take as long but it also yielded no real results. Clinton took the blame for the security failures but paid no price for it. Nobody took any heat for the CIA arms deal. All you got out of it was that the Obama administration officials were incompetent on a number of levels and they couldn't keep track of all the lies they told. The whole thing was unnecessary and embarrassing.

Let's stay on track with the Trump Jr. meeting. You say he met with "the Russians." By this you imply that he met with one of the few Russians that were trying to influence the election. There are probably 150 million Russians in the world, living in Russia and elsewhere. They all involved? No. Perhaps a few hundred might have been actively involved. This woman clearly wasn't. So the fact that she was "a Russian" is not relevant in this context, since she wasn't one of "the Russians." Had she been one of "the Russians" the meeting would have been about a different subject. So, stating that he met with "the Russians" is misstating the facts. You're adding a nefarious aspect to the meeting that doesn't exist. She might as well have been Chinese, for all that her nationality mattered to the subject at hand.

Then, consider the "lying" about who was in the meeting. When you get to the executive level in a large company like that, your day consists of endless meetings and phone calls. Let's be generous and say he averages 2 meetings a day. That's low, in my experience in the corporate world, but let's be conservative. Using those numbers, that means he has been in nearly 550 meetings since that one. You think he remembers every detail of every one of those? Hell no, he doesn't. You wouldn't either. Keep in mind this wasn't a particularly memorable meeting. It would have been, had the lawyer had any dirt on Clinton. When the truth came out, that she'd used a pretext to get a meeting on a subject that didn't matter to him, the meeting was ended and I suspect he didn't give any more thought to it. It allegedly lasted 20 minutes. Factor in the translating, both directions, and you can effectively cut that time in half.

You're putting a spin on this meeting that suits an anti-Trump narrative and you're not thinking things through.
Old 07-17-2017, 03:31 AM
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javadog View Post

Let's stay on track with the Trump Jr. meeting.
By all means. Start by reading the email exchange that led to the meeting. Here:

The email exchange Trump Jr. released, in chronological order

After you've read it you might save yourself some embarrassment by deleting that post.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Khal View Post
Bush's presidency went down in flames. No doubt trumps is heading towards the same path but at a faster pace since he threw away the honeymoon phase. This isn't gonna end well for the trump brand no matter what happens. He probably opened the door for any rich clown to run for office and turn the country into their personal piggybank and reality sewer fest.
I think the Clinton's took care of this part. There was no honeymoon for him.
Old 07-17-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by wdfifteen View Post
By all means. Start by reading the email exchange that led to the meeting. Here:

The email exchange Trump Jr. released, in chronological order

After you've read it you might save yourself some embarrassment by deleting that post.
Why would I change anything I wrote? Nothing about that email exchange has to do with the the aspects of the meeting that I discussed above and all I see in the email exchange is that someone claims to have damaging info on Clinton and Trump Jr. agreed to listen to what they had to say, so see if they had anything like they claimed.

As it turned out, Goldstone was essentially full of **** about the who and the what, none of it is illegal in any way to discuss and as we all know now, when the meeting happened, it was about another subject entirely.

You think if "the Russians" had made the same offer to the FBI, they wouldn't have also agreed to a meeting to hear what they had to say?

JR
Old 07-17-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javadog View Post
Whitewater took years. You can say it took 8 years, but that's because it morphed into all sorts of directions. That's the trouble with an independent counsel. These investigations start out in one direction and turn into fishing expeditions. I think we wasted something like $80 million, or so, on all of that. You get YOUR money's worth?

Benghazi didn't take as long but it also yielded no real results. Clinton took the blame for the security failures but paid no price for it. Nobody took any heat for the CIA arms deal. All you got out of it was that the Obama administration officials were incompetent on a number of levels and they couldn't keep track of all the lies they told. The whole thing was unnecessary and embarrassing.

Let's stay on track with the Trump Jr. meeting. You say he met with "the Russians." By this you imply that he met with one of the few Russians that were trying to influence the election. There are probably 150 million Russians in the world, living in Russia and elsewhere. They all involved? No. Perhaps a few hundred might have been actively involved. This woman clearly wasn't. So the fact that she was "a Russian" is not relevant in this context, since she wasn't one of "the Russians." Had she been one of "the Russians" the meeting would have been about a different subject. So, stating that he met with "the Russians" is misstating the facts. You're adding a nefarious aspect to the meeting that doesn't exist. She might as well have been Chinese, for all that her nationality mattered to the subject at hand.

Then, consider the "lying" about who was in the meeting. When you get to the executive level in a large company like that, your day consists of endless meetings and phone calls. Let's be generous and say he averages 2 meetings a day. That's low, in my experience in the corporate world, but let's be conservative. Using those numbers, that means he has been in nearly 550 meetings since that one. You think he remembers every detail of every one of those? Hell no, he doesn't. You wouldn't either. Keep in mind this wasn't a particularly memorable meeting. It would have been, had the lawyer had any dirt on Clinton. When the truth came out, that she'd used a pretext to get a meeting on a subject that didn't matter to him, the meeting was ended and I suspect he didn't give any more thought to it. It allegedly lasted 20 minutes. Factor in the translating, both directions, and you can effectively cut that time in half.

You're putting a spin on this meeting that suits an anti-Trump narrative and you're not thinking things through.

Since Whitewater didn't yield anything other than a scumbag President cheating on his horrible wife, I did not get my money's worth.

Benghazi went on for about 4 years. The Far Right here were constantly amazed and amused and captivated by the weekly and monthly updates of... nothing. Just ask Reiver. For years he thought Clinton would be going to prison any moment now. Issa, Gowdy... his Supermen, dead. A shame.

I have some experience with Russians. When I was publishing Modern Dad magazine I consulted for a start-up called Business Russia. As the name implies it was all about the ins and outs of doing business in Russia. The publisher had Russian connections and was there quite a lot. Without going into a long rambly story, he had to fold the magazine due to intense corruption and very real death threats from Russian businessmen. From everything I know, Russian business makes the Mafia seem like Boy Scouts. Russian Government makes Russian business seem like Boy Scouts.

I am genuinely puzzled why your pretext asks if all Russians were involved only to drill down to your conclusion that Natalia Veselnitskaya isn't involved. You simply can't come to that conclusion. I know why you have, you believe Trump Jr. and Natalia when they say nothing happened. But seriously, that is the same as you coming home and finding a thief in your bedroom. When you ask him what he is doing, he says, "Oh, was just checking the tags on your mattresses."

You respond, "Well?"

and he says, "They are fine, all attached."

and you thank him and he goes on his way.

That is a good synopsis of your position vis--vis Trump Jr.'s and Natalia's responses to questioning about the meeting. I am not in the habit of believing criminals when they are caught in the act though if you ask every man in prison, he will tell you, solemnly, he is innocent. He didn't do it.

I don't think Trump Jr. has more than 1 meeting per week. He could have more but I doubt it.

I'm really not putting a spin on anything. I am making observations. Here's a new one. When Sean Hannity asked Trump Jr., point blank, did you tell your father about the meeting, he didn't actually answer the question but gave the line his PR agent prepared for him.

My observation so far can be summed up as the Trump campaign and USAG have met numerous times with Russians and lied about the meetings. Why lie? It's the lying that spurs on investigation.

Trey Gowdy, Benghazi Messiah Extraordinaire had some good advice just the other day. Money shot starting at 1:10.




Quote: "This drip, drip, drip is undermining the credibility of this administration.

Now there's a newsflash.

Is Trey Gowdy a liberal now?
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:10 PM
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Use your head, Shaun. If that meeting had been held in an attempt to influence the election, the subject would have been something to do with the election, not the Magnitsky Act. Not one in 100 people even know what that act is and there is no aspect of it that anyone could possibly feel would have any bearing on voters' election preferences.

It's really that simple.

JR
Old 07-17-2017, 02:15 PM
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Again, you are believing criminals caught in the act.

Your bed tags are still attached, right?
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:21 PM
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What crime?

Please quote me the federal statute, or statutes, that were violated by that meeting.

JR
Old 07-17-2017, 02:29 PM
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Like Gowdy said.....he doesn't know...and no one does at this point...there is no obvious statute broken unless there is/are some behind the scenes issues no one publicly is aware of.

Right now the Dems are in the 'show me the man I'll show you the crime' mode.....they do not care about legality it simply fits their scenario.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 View Post
Again, you are believing criminals caught in the act.

Your bed tags are still attached, right?
If you had a clue you'd know that it is only illegal to remove those tags before sale.
After you buy the mattress you can remove the tags any way you want.
Old 07-17-2017, 02:41 PM
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What crime?

Please quote me the federal statute, or statutes, that were violated by that meeting.

JR
I already did, his entire cabinet lied on their security clearances and most go to jail for that.

https://news.clearancejobs.com/2014/01/11/happens-provide-false-information-security-clearance-investigation/

https://clearancejobsblog.com/consequences-lying-withholding-information-background-investigation/
Old 07-17-2017, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 View Post
Since Whitewater didn't yield anything other than a scumbag President cheating on his horrible wife, I did not get my money's worth.

Benghazi went on for about 4 years. The Far Right here were constantly amazed and amused and captivated by the weekly and monthly updates of... nothing. Just ask Reiver. For years he thought Clinton would be going to prison any moment now. Issa, Gowdy... his Supermen, dead. A shame.
I remember those Benghazi hearings. what was it that Hillary said?

Quote:
I swear on my mother's grave that this was legit. That's all I can do for you man. But since my word means nothing, call it a day, because that's all I have.
No, wait.... that wasn't hillary ......








Old 07-17-2017, 02:44 PM
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I already did, his entire cabinet lied on their security clearances and most go to jail for that.
No, read my question again. What, if any, federal statute was violated by them holding that meeting.
Old 07-17-2017, 02:50 PM
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No, read my question again. What, if any, federal statute was violated by them holding that meeting.
None by having the meeting on the day it happened but they were supposed to have all of this disclosed for their security clearances.

The felonies they committed came at a later date. So all of them committed felonies to cover up their collusion that wasn't illegal. So they thought they'd get away with it but got caught committing felonies to cover up non criminal acts. That's amateur right there.

It's pretty straight forward. Its like lying to the FBI that you ice fishing (which is legal) when sitting next to a 30 dead fish on a frozen pond with a rod and reel in your hand. Its the lying is the crimes they committed.
Old 07-17-2017, 02:59 PM
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What crime?

Please quote me the federal statute, or statutes, that were violated by that meeting.

JR
Sigh.

Proverbial.

Of course the follow-up is, why lie about something that isn't a crime.

of course the answer is this meeting transcends the law.

Just ask Charles Krauthammer and Trey Gowdy.

Or you could stay Clintonian and argue the definition of "is."
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:02 PM
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If you want them to go to jail for that, I assume you're all in for getting Clinton to prison for the hundreds of mishandled classified documents, too, right? She signed multiple documents stating she understood the penalties of improper handling before she was ever able to lay eyes on anything, so she certainly knew the rules.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:17 PM
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If you want them to go to jail for that, I assume you're all in for getting Clinton to prison for the hundreds of mishandled classified documents, too, right? She signed multiple documents stating she understood the penalties of improper handling before she was ever able to lay eyes on anything, so she certainly knew the rules.
Of course I am. She should have been locked up several decades ago. Good point she knew the rules better than trumps family did.

I didn't say I wanted them in jail. I'm just pointing out where they knowingly or accidentally committed possible crimes. Its up to the investigation to figure all of that out.

Don will pardon everyone regardless of the outcome so its all sort of a big deal over nothing in the end.
Old 07-17-2017, 03:22 PM
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how will he pardon them when you people impeach him, that's going to happen, right?
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:25 PM
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