Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Miscellaneous and Off Topic Forums > Paint, Bodywork & Detailing Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
I would rather be driving
 
jpnovak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 7,503
Body work vs epoxy primer - the order

I am currently working towards painting my 72. Its been almost 15 years since I last painted the car. There are a few areas that need minor attention.

What is the current best practice in regards to a skim coat of filler?

Bare metal > epoxy > filler > poiyester primer > block sand/guide coats

OR

Bare metal > filler > epoxy > Polyester primer > block sand/guide coats

Thanks.
__________________
Jamie - I can explain it to you. But I can not understand it for you.
71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
72 911T project car. "Minne" - A tangy version of tangerine
classicautowerks.com - EFI conversion parts
Old 09-10-2018, 07:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Syracuse,Ny
Posts: 1,647
Either way is fine, it's one of those personal preference things.
Old 09-11-2018, 05:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 292
get your metal work as perfect as possible, do your filler work as best as possible … don't skip to priming thinking the primer will "take care of it". You will find that when you use the filler skimming a large complete area is best for sanding out.... if you have an area of filler and then put another layer on or adjacent the previous layer , the sanding property's are different transitioning from one application to the next.....
Old 09-11-2018, 09:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
dkbautosports.com
 
962porsche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: branford ct
Posts: 3,250
either way works.
personally with most jobs i will do bare metal, one thin coat of epoxy , body filler , then another thin coat of epoxy just on the bare metal from sanding , then my filler primer , guide coat block if needed i will filler prime again guide coat then block again for sealer and top coating.
Old 09-13-2018, 04:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Essentialist
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 31
I disassembled my car short of removing the glass, prepping it for paint. Pulling off the tops of the doors and things that poke through the deck lids revealed minor rust around those holes, like chips down to the metal. 'Got some rust converter, primer and some kind of filler to address those areas. Am I on the right track? Sand first? Convert and then fill, prime and block?

In taking the car apart I also noticed, due to it's body work (had fenders switched out) it is a Frankenstein car, made with red and blue pieces (original was metallic brown changed to white). I feel like stripping the color/texture off the backsides of these pieces (bumper and "running boards") and retexturing/priming/painting grey or black before turning over the car to my painter. Is ok?
__________________
Like father, like daughter
74 Targa Outlaw
Old 09-16-2018, 04:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
I would rather be driving
 
jpnovak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 7,503
Thanks. I went with single layer of epoxy. I am now working on a skim coat of filler in a few spots to level the surface. I metal worked as best I could. The filler is really thin and I am OK with that. I will then move on to another full coat once a few panels get some attention. Then a high build primer sealer that is final blocked for paint.

Getting excited about this moving forward.
__________________
Jamie - I can explain it to you. But I can not understand it for you.
71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
72 911T project car. "Minne" - A tangy version of tangerine
classicautowerks.com - EFI conversion parts
Old 09-19-2018, 04:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posts: 242
Old thread, but I thought I could add some near-scientific info I found elsewhere. It would appear that the filler binds better to the metal than the epoxy. Therefore, less risk of delamination when you apply filler, then epoxy. This is what I did, and used a phospate solution to prevent flash rust.

Epoxy or No Epoxy Under Filler - Autobodystore
__________________
___oOo___
1972 S 911 Targa kit
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/863768-thats-my-first-911-restoration-thread-72-911-s-back-grave-maybe.html
Old 10-30-2018, 05:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
dkbautosports.com
 
962porsche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: branford ct
Posts: 3,250
as i have stated countless times 1st not all fillers like to go over primed or painted substrates just as there are fillers that do not like to be applied over bare metals.

there is also the fact that not all epoxy primers are the same and this also goes for epoxy sealers.

not knowing PPG products i can not comment on what they did or how they did it.
how ever the 1st thing that comes to mind is the fact they didn't wait for the epoxy to cure only dry still in a window of recoating. most all recoating windows are for applying a filler primer over the epoxy not spreading body fillers. if a product has not gone to it's cure state yet then solvents are still evaporating and you will not get a good bond with a filler if this is the case. this is why on most cans of body fillers they say you can use it over cured paints.
Old 10-30-2018, 02:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Rodney Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 670
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnovak View Post
Thanks. I went with single layer of epoxy. I am now working on a skim coat of filler in a few spots to level the surface. I metal worked as best I could. The filler is really thin and I am OK with that. I will then move on to another full coat once a few panels get some attention. Then a high build primer sealer that is final blocked for paint.

Getting excited about this moving forward.
How about some pics? Would love to see your 72 as I am restoring a 72 myself
__________________
Rodney Nelson
Certified Porschephile
'82 SC (White) sold
'86 951 (Guards) Burned to Death
'71 911T (Orange) Sold
'72 911E (White) Sold
'86 951 (Black) Sold
'79 SC (White) Sold
'71 911 T (Green) Sold
Old 11-03-2018, 10:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
Ill add to the good info above. If you live in a relatively humid and or cold climate you might want to consider epoxying first to protect and cover the bare metal to prevent corrosion. Then make sure whatever filler you are using is meant to go over epoxy and not only bare metal
Old 11-26-2018, 09:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
I would rather be driving
 
jpnovak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 7,503
The car is now painted. You can follow along in my build thread.



Project Minne - A Saga of a 72.

The process I followed. Please note that I did not include cure times or other specific details about the products I was using. I used a single product line through color and then a compatible color coat. Make sure you follow the Technical Data Sheet (TDS) for each product. Mixing times, pot set times, pot life, surface temperature, product temperatures. gun setup (tip size, pressure) - it all makes a difference.

Blast the car to bare metal
Preserve with coat of Ospho or similar
Do all the rust repair and metal work
metal finish exterior surfaces (pull dents, etc)
Another Ospho wash since it took 3 years to get to this point
neutralize Ospho with water wash
Immediately dry with compressed air and then wash with denatured alcohol to dry remaining water residue
Scuff with 80 grit (DA + sanding board + hand = whatever fits the panel)
Wipe down with alcohol and then prepsol to degrease surface
epoxy prime - 2 coats
scuff epoxy and apply filler to needed areas
block sand entire surface - mostly long sanding board here. 80 and 120Grit depending on surface contour and amount of filler needed.
wipe clean and degrease
epoxy primer coat #2
block sand surface
wipe clean and degrease
2K high-build primer
block sand surface through 400wet
wipe clean and degrease
epoxy primer sealer (epoxy primer thinned with reducer according to TDS)
block wetsand at 400 and 600
wipe clean and degrease
shoot color - 3 coats single stage


Here is the final result. I am very pleased. This is right out of the gun. I Have not yet cut and buffed the surface. I am letting the paint cure a week before starting to sand again. My arms need recovery.






__________________
Jamie - I can explain it to you. But I can not understand it for you.
71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
72 911T project car. "Minne" - A tangy version of tangerine
classicautowerks.com - EFI conversion parts
Old 11-27-2018, 07:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Essentialist
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 31
Whoa.
__________________
Like father, like daughter
74 Targa Outlaw
Old 11-27-2018, 01:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
dkbautosports.com
 
962porsche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: branford ct
Posts: 3,250
car looks good .

the boat in the pic your? you take it up to lake travis??
i go to Austin once a year or so we like to go to Oasis for dinner after the races at COTA.
Old 11-27-2018, 03:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
I would rather be driving
 
jpnovak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 7,503
Thanks.

Could not have done it without the fantastic advice here. I have painted a few other cars but this one is by far the best.

Yes, That is my boat. We have a small place on Lake LBJ. This is 2 lakes up from Lake Travis. It was damaged in the flood last month and I brought it home for some repairs. That is next on the list now that the car is painted.

The Oasis has an amazing view. Best on Lake Travis for sure.
__________________
Jamie - I can explain it to you. But I can not understand it for you.
71 911T SWT - Sun and Fun Mobile
72 911T project car. "Minne" - A tangy version of tangerine
classicautowerks.com - EFI conversion parts
Old 11-27-2018, 05:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 736
Garage spray? Looking killer! I'm leaning towards this myself as the quotes are so high here, that it's almost not worth it for a competition car.
Old 12-06-2018, 10:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:48 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.