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Josh
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Grand Junction, CO
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Paint recommendations

I am getting closer to shooting some paint on my car. The shop that I was planning to use caries DuPont, Standox, Nason, U-Tech, and Lesonal. I am looking for a base clear system that I am going to shoot at home. I'd love some input from you pros.
My first question is: as a novice does it make sense for me to use a very high quality (top of the line) paint?
My second question: Of the companies mentioned, which product lines do you like? Which are the top of the line, middle of the road, and bottom of the barrel?
Thanks

Old 08-17-2012, 06:56 PM
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The Mighty Pieholio
 
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Those are some broad scope big honkin' questions that can solicit a squillion answers.

Are you bound to that shop? Is BC/CC mandatory? If so, why?

I would do whatever I could to get 22 line Glasurit and put on your car what was there originally (actually 21 line) unless metallic paint.
Old 08-25-2012, 01:57 PM
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Josh
 
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Thanks for the reply Bob.
Let me tell you what I am doing and then answer your questions. I'm restoring a 75 911s. It's my first car project. I'm really loving it an just taking my time with each step. It was a yellow car that was resprayed in black back in the 80s. It lived outside in the desert for a few years before I got it and most of the paint is cracked and peeling. It doesn't have it's original engine or interior. My plan is a color change to Mexico Blue - interior, trunk, underside etc. the trunk and interior are both currently stripped to bare metal - due to paint and surface rust issues - and I am currently working on stripping the wheel wells and underside. The plan is to keep it a narrow body car that looks fairly original but it's far from a numbers matching original car.
Am I bound to the shop? No, they have been nice to me. I've bought a couple cartridge respirators (I also have a fresh air system) and some single stage aerosol cans in M.Blue. I was just trying to give a local shop some business but I am willing to change. There are no Glasurit dealers here that I have found but I believe we have a PPG shop. Is mail order a good option for paint?
Also BC/CC is not mandatory. I will be shooting in a home made booth in my garage. Most things that I've read seem to indicate that It is easier to correct mistakes and contaminates with a two stage system. I would love to hear your thoughts about it.
I would love continued input. My car is totally disassembled except for the engine bay (which I'll paint later) and I'm hoping to have paint on the car by the end of October. I am going to take the fenders, doors, hood, etc to be Soda blasted by a local shop but the body I'll prep with a DA sander. So with probably 20-30 hours of prep work left I feel like I'm getting seriously close to shooting some paint and I would like to find someone experienced to bounce questions off.
Old 08-26-2012, 05:51 AM
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The Mighty Pieholio
 
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I would consider getting a good paint stripper I buy stuff at Lowe's that works great in combination with a razor blade removal tool. It is not too messy - no dust and you can strip a whole bunch of stuff in a days time. With a pal you can knock it out in a day or less. (Safety tip - wash hands/gloves thoroughly of remover before urinating)

However, it depends on what the body shop wants $$$$ for blasting. May not be worth your time for a DIY.

Shop Jasco 128-Oz. Indoor/Outdoor Premium Paint and Epoxy Remover Gal at Lowes.com

I will give paint some thoughts in a bit - company just arrived. Once you decide on the paint then folks will be better focused on how to help you.

Paint is tough to ship due to hazmat issues.

Last edited by Bob Kontak; 08-27-2012 at 06:34 AM..
Old 08-26-2012, 11:28 AM
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The Mighty Pieholio
 
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You and I will lay down a so-so job. It will look like new paint has been applied and that is about it.

Wet sanding/polishing is the key to making it look way way better than just freshly painted. Actually, prep work is the big key but that is not the topic.

Either will look fine but my personal preference is that well polished single stage urethane has a classic look that BC/CC does not capture. Another person will have another opinion and it's all subjective.

I do like working with single stage and the fact that Glasurit 22 Line is the next best thing to original 21 Line (which had lead in it) I will stick with that as long as possible on Porsches. I use DuPont BC/CC on newer cars.

Back to your original post. Yes, use top of the line paint. The properties of the paint do not know if you are an experienced or noob painter. The better paint will be just that - better. It will last longer with less work to keep it looking nice.

The brands you mention are either DuPont or Akzo Nobel. Both are good companies. Meaning you won't get a bucket of Earl Shieb quality paint if you buy those. The jobber should tell you the pluses and minuses of each of those mentioned. Price should also be an indicator of general quality. Unfortunately, I can't tell you if one or more of them sucks because I don't know other than the DuPont Chromabase.

These guys sell Glasurit based on Glasurit's distributor listings. At least go down and talk to them and get some pricing info. Also, first call and see if they sell 22 Line as I don't know if the air laws in Colorado are as strict as California. Pretty sure 22 line is not allowed in California.

Hightower Supply 537 N 1st St Grand Junction, CO
(970) 256-1010

Last edited by Bob Kontak; 08-27-2012 at 08:16 AM..
Old 08-27-2012, 08:13 AM
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dkbautosports.com
 
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i'm staying off this post as what to use for paints as i'm only like BASF products .
but there are two things to look at . the cost of the end sprayable product .
many people get sucked into the cost of the product only to find out later they spend even more because thay had to buy more product to get the same coverage . then there is also the fact that many of the BASF products cross over like there reducers it's one and the same reducer for all the thinning needs . many other CO's have deferent reducers and hardeners for there top coats clears and single stage . in CAL yes they do have 22 line but the hardeners are deferent from the rest of the country . i have used it mixxed with there hardener . it does spray deferent but lays down good i also found you should dubble bake the car or let it sit the cure up good before you try and buff it .
Old 08-27-2012, 11:17 AM
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The Mighty Pieholio
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 962porsche View Post
i'm staying off this post as what to use for paints as i'm only like BASF products .
I always use BASF RM on larger BC/CC jobs. Smaller jobs require a jobber that has a precision matching system that my BASF jobber does not have.

jpearson - Glasurit and RM are part of BASF. 962 paints for a living so that is input from one pro at least.
Old 08-27-2012, 12:52 PM
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Josh
 
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Thanks you guys - I actually called Hightower this morning - they carry line 90 and 55 but he is going to check if he can get some line 22 and the price. How much would you estimate I need to paint the exterior, interior, trunk, underside and eventually engine bay - I guesstimated 3 quarts but what do I know. I suspect it will be good for me to spray 3-4 coats so I have more room for error in the sanding polishing phase. What do you think.
Old 08-27-2012, 01:44 PM
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Josh
 
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No luck on the Line 22. They suggested PPG Concept as their closest product.
Old 08-27-2012, 02:56 PM
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The Mighty Pieholio
 
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Mixing ratio is 2 parts paint / 1 part hardener / 10% reducer.

4.95 quarts ready to spray. I can't say for sure but see pic below.

This stuff covers really really well.

Maybe the shop can source premixed 22 Line.

Old 08-27-2012, 03:00 PM
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Josh
 
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Bob - those cars look awesome! 4.95 quarts to paint both? Exterior only?
The shop called their sales rep and a couple other shops and said they couldn't get any line 22. Does anyone reading this have any input on the PPG Concept? I'm going to try and read some reviews tonight.
Old 08-27-2012, 04:17 PM
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dkbautosports.com
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kontak View Post
I always use BASF RM on larger BC/CC jobs. Smaller jobs require a jobber that has a precision matching system that my BASF jobber does not have.

jpearson - Glasurit and RM are part of BASF. 962 paints for a living so that is input from one pro at least.
if your jobber sells any BASF products he should have the BASF color max system . the hole point that makes BASF a very user friendly system is that they have the color max system . they are spray out that are done for you by BASF with real paint so you don't have to waste your time and money on doing it your self . if your jobber does not have the color max then they are in no way a authorized jobber for basf . and i would not buy rom them at all there is a good bet that they are not authorized by any paint co to sell they products . they are just some place that buys and sells products .
even if they do not have a color max system they should have at the least a color eye camera even though they are only 80 % accurate .
with all that said BASF known for being one of the best and most documented paint systems out there . they german after all and they are known for being anal about every little thing they do . they are so anal they only heir women to do there color matching and spray out because women have a better eye for colors then men do . and if you do have a bad color match you can give a panel to your authorized basf jobber and they will send it out to the basf HQ to be color matched for you .
Old 08-27-2012, 04:46 PM
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dkbautosports.com
 
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you can go to the BASF web site and look for a color source jobber in your area there . or call paul francis and co at 203 468 8126 and they will ship any product you will need ask for george .
Old 08-27-2012, 04:52 PM
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Josh
 
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Well I've done a bunch more reading about bc/cc vs single stage the last two nights and I've really converted to the idea of single stage. Especially since it's just the correct look for a 70s Porsche. It also looks like my wife and I are going to Denver in early October so I'm sure I can get line 22 there since the shop here hasn't been able to help.

A few more questions:
What is the best order to paint? I was planning to prime everything and do all my blocking then paint interior - trunk - underside - then exterior. I don't know if it matters but I'd be curious for advice. I have to paint the underside in two halves since I have to move my supports around.

Also - since I'm painting the car disassembled. Is it better to wet sand and polish with the car disassembled or back together? Does it matter? Obviously all the nooks and crannies are more accesable disassembled but I thought it might have a more uniform finish to do it all together?

How many coats should I plan. Is 3 plenty or should I consider 4 to give me more room for error when wet sanding? Is there a downside to 4 other than added cost?
Old 08-28-2012, 05:39 AM
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The Mighty Pieholio
 
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I would go with 962porsche's recommendation and have the whole nine yards shipped. They can get you the better hardener as well.

Do the exterior last. Do the interior first.

You will need more than three quarts, I believe, if you are doing the car, interior, inner fenders, trunk and bottom with enough for the engine bay later, but I do not know the exact amount.

I do remember a thread that talked about that. I'll see if I can find it.

I posted the 911 next to the mini to show that it is not a big car. I guess I could have explained that.

Four vs three coats? The Glasurit sites talks of 22 Line being a one coat application so that gives you an indication of the density of the paint. I put four on mine though for the same reason you are thinking.

You will get a flavor for the coverage doing the interior. Paint a fender with three, hang it on the car and sand/polish to see how it comes out. If it needs more then you have that knowledge before going whole hog on the body.

Edit - All of this said, I defer to whatever 962 suggests as I have only a small portfolio to draw experience from.

Last edited by Bob Kontak; 08-28-2012 at 08:12 AM..
Old 08-28-2012, 08:09 AM
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Josh
 
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Well I called a couple places in Denver and I called Paul Francis. It is actually cheaper to have to paint shipped from Francis and CO. Either way I am going to want to get the right amount of paint from the get go because it will take time to get more. I did find the thread about paint volume for PPG paint but not Glasurit.
962 - Any input on volume to order? I am shooting with and HVLP gun. Probably two coats inside and 3-4 coats outside the car. I am thinking 1 gallon and 1 quart of color? Also - are the primers the same across all the Glasurit lines? If they are I will probably buy my primers locally.
Old 08-28-2012, 09:51 AM
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did we talk about what color you need ? that has alot to do with the coverage your going to get . if it's a color like black it's a one to two coat coverage a color like white , red ,yellow orange is a 2 to 3 coat coverage . with black your covered in one coat the 2nd is to give you the mill thickness to color sand and buff . the same goes for the other colors like white whites tend to take an extra coat just because they are very transperant colors . that is were your sealers will come into play . on the lighter colors i like the 285-60 primer tinted and mixed as a sealer . 6 qts will more than do and you should have extra if you **** up and have to respray a part or two . a qt and a half of sealer will do for the hole job . a gal of primer should do if your not doing a dubble prime to the car . that would be prime the hole car then block the car and reprime it again . that makes your panels very straight with out any waves in them . etch or epoxy primer depends on just how much bare metal you have . about two qt's if the hole car is in bare metal one qt if your spoting in the areas of bare metal that are showing . and you should end up with extra E-primer if thats the case .

as for using HVLP you will need all HVLP hoses and fittings to make it work . the standered air hose and fittings are not HVLP and will not make the hvlp gun work as it needs to . so make sure your all hvlp from the air tank to the gun .
Old 08-28-2012, 01:15 PM
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The Mighty Pieholio
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 962porsche View Post
as for using HVLP you will need all HVLP hoses and fittings to make it work .
Never knew that. Finally got a DeVilbiss Tekna and first job used the old hoses.

Man, I owe you.

Mexico Blue is what OP is thinking.
Old 08-28-2012, 01:28 PM
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Josh
 
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Awesome - great info. I am doing Mexico Blue so I don't know if that counts as a light or dark color. Would recommend a tinted primer for that?

I redid my entire air supply for my garage this summer with painting in mind. All 1/2 pipe with long vertical runs to help pull out moisture along with a filter/trap and a desiccant snake. I am also running Milton high flow couplings. The bonus is all my air tools work 10 times better.

Just curious - what's OP?
Old 08-28-2012, 02:12 PM
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Josh
 
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Also - can either of you guys tell me which Glasurit epoxy primer and primer/surfacer you like? There are several on the website.

Old 08-28-2012, 03:18 PM
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