Glass smooth paint: Color sand and buff?

[catuck]

Hi all, I'm hoping you can settle my concerns. My body shop has done a full bare metal restore of my car, and it is going in for paint next weekend. I asked about color sanding and polishing, and my guy told me it won't need it. Is that normal? He told me it will be like glass. When I worked in the autobody business 25 years ago we always color sanded and polished high end paint jobs. Was I in a low end shop or have things changed? Will I be unhappy with the finish? I'm looking for a show quality paint job.

[962porsche]

do you own the guy ?
if not why do people refer to shops and body / paint people as my or there .

you said your looking for show quality ? 1st is that what your paying for ? then if color sanding and buffing was part of the job it will be in your estimate . if not then it's not free labor nor will most shops do it for free .

then there is show and then concourse . they are not the same in any way so what are you looking for ?

all finishes should look like glass to a point if the painter is any good .
how ever any and all finishes will have a very little peal to them even with the best of painters and the best of products . but in no way should any shop be wet sanding and buffing every job top to bottom front to back just because . this gets into concourse or show .
concourse is reproducing the OE finish and the porsches OE finishes have a little peal to them .
auto makers like Lamborghini and Ferrari buff all there cars no matter how the finish is so they are truly like glass .
now this comes down to the pricing of the job and how the shop priced it .
cars like Maybach , Ferrari , lambo, rolls , we add the labor into the pricing of the job because they color sanded and buff those cars at the factory . were cars like Porsche's BMW and Benz we would go over when they were looking for in a finish . we can easily replicate the OE finishes with out having to color sand and buff the hole car . if the owner wanted the hole car buffed they would have to pay for it and the cost would be added into the estimate .

the shop that is doing your car I would bet does not do many high end cars or they would have gone over this with you . that is not to say they are not a good shop but they just don't do high end cars exclusively .

[AVDCAV]

But also todays equipment is very different " how many shops 25 years ago
Could afford a heated downdraft with all the goodies, not many . So what choice did they have
It was either color sand and polish with microfinish then move onto the old reliable hand glaze.
Or have people go ". That like like crap...

Most shops back them didn't even have dryers on there air systems ,
So who knows maybe this shop has a guy that can actually paint? They are out there,

[catuck]

do you own the guy ?

It's a pretty common figure of speech, I didn't mean any disrespect. I'm often referred to as "my architect" by clients - never asked if they own me

So, what your saying is that I can expect some orange peel - but if he's a good painter (which I expect he is) it won't be very noticeable. I never told him I'm looking for show quality, but I'm in this for a little over $20k and I disassembled the car and will re-assemble myself (all trims, glass, motor, interior etc out). I don't know exactly what a bare metal job goes for these days but I think I'm in the ballpark to be happy with the finish. If I'm unhappy with the finish, I'll work it out with him. He's a good guy and the job he's doing so far has been extremely impressive.

I was under the false impression that a scuff and buff was a given - guess I watch too many car restoration shows!

Thanks for your advice

[catuck]

Good point AVDCAV, he does have a very nice heated downdraft spray booth. I guess I'm picturing pretty bad orange peel when I shouldn't.

[962porsche]

I'm just joking with you about my guy / shop .

it's a total myth that heat will make your paint flow . 1st for the booth to cycle thru from spray to bake it's 10 to 15 minutes . that is flash time so the paint is set up by that point . if the booth went from spray to bake to fast you would get solvent poping in the finish as the top layer would start to dry way to fast and the solvents under the fast drying top layer will still need to escape .

as for a down draft offering A CLEANER job then a cross draft this too is just a myth . earthier booth will give you a very clean job if you change out the filters as needed and keep the booth clean .
then there is prep you have to prep the car so it is clean before you even start to paint .
then there is the painter . he or she also has to be clean .
then there is the gun a dirty gun is were you get a lot of crap in a paint job too .
so all these things have to come together for a clean job . fall short on any one of them and the job will come out dirty .

the job you should be getting should look like any new cars finish . they have peal to them but nothing bad just look at any new car in a parting lot you will see a little peal .
in no way should it look like it's missing a Sunkist sticker on it !

many production shop do color sand and buff . this is because they just knock cars out and it's quicker to give them a quick sand and buff then take there time to paint cars the way they need to be . most run of the mill insurance repair type shops are like that .

[catuck]

Thought you might be joking, but wasn't sure.

Well, I guess I'll wait and see how it turns out. I know he's doing all the right prep work - blocking, guide coat, etc. so it will be flat.

[keynsham1]

auto makers like Lamborghini and Ferrari buff all there cars no matter how the finish is so they are truly like glass .

I have to disagree here. I have seen new Ferrari's with appauling orange peel looking paintwork. I always assumed that ferrari buyers were not bothered with this sort of detail as it is all about driving!

[962porsche]

you have that right !
but Ferrari , Lamborgini , Maybach , rolls are all hand color sanded and buffed from top to bottom front to back . so as a Ferrari owner owning 12 over the years and a shop that works on them every day many 1000's over the years I have no idea what your looking at ???
even the low cost mass produced 355's are sanded and buffed at the factory .

[jtsas]

How much peal should one see in a 2 coat metallic silver of the 71 vintage? Painter said 3 coats clear and then buff out. What was the process oem factory? Thanks in advance.

[962porsche]

back in 1971 they had just a touch of peal to the OE finish . over time with detailing you do end up with a smoother finish . if you look at the finishes on the new cars of today like Honda ,Toyota you will see about what Porsche had back then . at 1st look you would think there is no peal to them but get down look across the panel and there will be some . back then Porsche had one of the best fit and finishes offered . but look at what they were compared to cars like a chevy and ford of the day .
at that time Porsche would spot sand and buff there cars .Porsche had this scale from 1 to 10 from knee height down they would not do any thing much at all (a 3 ) from knee height to your belt they would pay a little more attention (a 6 ) from your belt to the top it was (a 10) .
I do have a sheet from when I worked at Porsche AG of a out line drawing with a 911 on it .
of what the quality control people should look for with fit and finish . I will look for it and post it .