Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Miscellaneous and Off Topic Forums > Paint, Bodywork & Detailing Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Rick
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sanford, NC
Posts: 51
Garage
Brand of bondo?

I am working on my 1970 911 tub to remove rust. I have read most of the threads on rust work, and read Freddie's 101. I am only working on areas that will be painted in flat black (keeping original Blood Orange paint on the outside). Here is my process: strip undercoating on a small section, get to bare metal, cover with rattle can prime. Then, when I get a large enough section done, remove rattle can primer and shoot with epoxy primer (PPG). Then, start surgery on rust areas: front nose, rocker panels, floor pan, all the usual suspects.

Here is my question: As I weld in the new parts, I understand that these welds should be covered with short hair fiberglass after grinding the weld flat. Then covered with epoxy primer. Then a skim coat of bondo. What brand of fiberglass and bondo is the best to use? What about the metal-to-metal instead of fiberglass?

This is a long term project, and I will be years before all is done. This is why the small sections covered with rattle can primer so that the rust doesn't come back before I am ready to epoxy primer. Or, should I just mix up small amounts of primer and brush it on to start with?

Thanks in advance.

Rick
__________________
Rick
1970 911 E purchased in Stuttgart in 1973
Old 09-30-2013, 05:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
non-whiner
 
mreid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Slightly right of center
Posts: 5,237
Body filler needs to be applied directly to metal given some tooth with 80 grit, directly to epoxy primer before it fully cures, or to fully cured primer scuffed up with 80 grit for tooth. As for small batches of primer. Buy a case of Prevale sprayers and use them to spray small batches of high quality, two-part epoxy primer. Saves you a step at a lower cost. As for body filler, I prefer Rage.

Last edited by mreid; 09-30-2013 at 08:34 AM..
Old 09-30-2013, 08:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
dkbautosports.com
 
962porsche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: branford ct
Posts: 3,245
ok lets start with this .
bondo is not a product it's a brand like ford , GM ,toyota, vw and so on .
the name of the product is called plastic body filler or in short body filler .

so now to the repair of the floor pan :
if you do the repair right you should in now way need to use a filler of any type to hide the patch panels your welding in . you should but weld every thing with no overlapping of the seams . you then grind the welds flat so you no longer see then if you do get a little distorsion in the panel it's not like a upper body panel so you would never see or tell if you do . you will how ever see you did a patch if you skimmed over it with a body filler as that would be to smooth and a dead give away that some one was there .

as for the coating you would want to use that would be SEM's rush shield ( flat black mixed with there hardener 8 to 1 ) the flat will be a exact match to what porsche uses for there coatings on the floors . you do not want any other product under it as the rust-shield is a DTM product and top coat all in one .

then you will chip guard the under side of the floor pan and your finished .
the kent beige chip guard is a match to what porsche uses for there mill build and texture .
how ever i don't know if you can buy it as i know of no body supply store (jobber) that sells it . you may find it on line if you google kent automotive products .

you would not want to use a primer on the bare metal as it will stay in the area you will not be able to remove it from by sanding . like the pin holes and edges . your bast bet is to coat the bare metal with WD-40 then wipe it off with a pre paint cleaner when your ready to keep going on the rest of the floor . WD40 has no silicone in it so you willnot have any headeachs fromuseing it over bare metal and it will stop the metal from rusting as it sits there in bare metal . we have been doing it for many years in the resto shop with out one problem from it .
Old 09-30-2013, 09:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
300hp 1800lbs is the goal
 
pksystems's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,044
Garage
You could use Eastwood Afterblast/Rust bullet Metal Blast/Picklex-20 to keep it from flash rusting while you are working on other areas.

They are a phosphoric acid based conditioner/protector.

As long as the area won't get physical water on it, it shouldn't rust (moisture in air is okay)
__________________
The '66 912 Bastardization project has begun.
Note to PO's: LAY OFF THE FREAKING BONDO!!!!

The science was settled: Earth was flat.
Galileo : Flat Earth denier.
Old 09-30-2013, 12:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
dkbautosports.com
 
962porsche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: branford ct
Posts: 3,245
heres the thing with products like afterblast and alike . they cost 3 times than a can of good old wd40 and don't work any better at all .
we used them for year and years in my shop up untill about 3 years ago when we did a side by side test with wd40 and two other products after two years of sitting the products were no different . so why should you spend over 3 times the money on some thing that is no better at all .

when it comes to body fillers not all are made as a DTM product . many will in fact not like to bite into bare metal at all . you can see this at time when you start to sand the filler the the edge wants to lift and peal .
this has to do with the talc that makes up the filler it's self . talk makes filler sand ez and not clog the sand paper all that ez but the down side to it is it does not like to bite into bare metals .

when it comes to using products like all metal and fiberglass based fillers over metals for the most part NO they do not give a long lasting repair .
all metal is great for aluminum panels as it's a aluminum based product . you can get away with it at time over ferrous metals as long as the coats are very thin . this is because of the expansion and contraction rate of the two different products aluminum based filler to steel .
the same is true with products like duraglass and other fiberglass based fillers they work great for filling fiberglass but not good for going over metal /steel for a long lasting repair .
what you tend to get is a ghost of the repair area after a year or two .

you could go with a e-primer but many other products that you would use to replicate how porsche does the floor pans will not stick well to the e-primers .
you could go with a e-primer and then top coat with a low gloss black but that is not how porsche does there pans and now your spending more time and money to have it not last any longer and not have the OE look of the porsche coating used on the floor and it will not hold up as well as the rust-shield will .
Old 09-30-2013, 03:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 2,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by 962porsche View Post
heres the thing with products like afterblast and alike . they cost 3 times than a can of good old wd40 and don't work any better at all .
we used them for year and years in my shop up untill about 3 years ago when we did a side by side test with wd40 and two other products after two years of sitting the products were no different . so why should you spend over 3 times the money on some thing that is no better at all .

when it comes to body fillers not all are made as a DTM product . many will in fact not like to bite into bare metal at all . you can see this at time when you start to sand the filler the the edge wants to lift and peal .
this has to do with the talc that makes up the filler it's self . talk makes filler sand ez and not clog the sand paper all that ez but the down side to it is it does not like to bite into bare metals .

when it comes to using products like all metal and fiberglass based fillers over metals for the most part NO they do not give a long lasting repair .
all metal is great for aluminum panels as it's a aluminum based product . you can get away with it at time over ferrous metals as long as the coats are very thin . this is because of the expansion and contraction rate of the two different products aluminum based filler to steel .
the same is true with products like duraglass and other fiberglass based fillers they work great for filling fiberglass but not good for going over metal /steel for a long lasting repair .
what you tend to get is a ghost of the repair area after a year or two .

you could go with a e-primer but many other products that you would use to replicate how porsche does the floor pans will not stick well to the e-primers .
you could go with a e-primer and then top coat with a low gloss black but that is not how porsche does there pans and now your spending more time and money to have it not last any longer and not have the OE look of the porsche coating used on the floor and it will not hold up as well as the rust-shield will .
I am curious, how do you get the wd40 off??? Is it just with the standard degreaser? I would worry that this would effect paint adhesion later on?

I have used the phosphoric acid products (ospho/metal ready/dupont metal prep) etc, and they seem to work in areas where you can thorougly flush with water to remove the acid. But in questionable area, like the car's inside/trunks, thats hard to do. I have found that if it isn't flushed really well, it effects the ability of the paint to cure, and sometimes it just stays gooey... How do you manage this??
Old 10-01-2013, 06:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
dkbautosports.com
 
962porsche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: branford ct
Posts: 3,245
all you use is good old pre paint clean and thats it . wd wipes right off and leaves nothing behind to worry about like fisheyes .

we put pre paint cleaned in one of the hand pump sprayers spray it on the panel and wipe the wd right off .

when i was talked into trying it i used many other products made for protecting bare metal .
some you have to use water to wash off and that always seamed a little nuts to me as the reason why i was useing metal sealers was to protect the metal from moisture and then i'm going to soak the panel i'm trying to protect with the same thing .
so we did a side by side test and let the same panel sit there in bare metal for two years before the guy that works for me do the repair on it as it was for his own 1949 ford .
i will say all 3 of the products worked the same there was no rust at all on the panel any were . but the wd cleaned with per paint cleaner and was much cheaper to use for the same end result . so after that we just started using wd40 at a much lower cost and ez clean up .
we still metal prep bare metal with a acid wash before we start our body work but its just a wash cleaner not made to let sit on the panels for a long time .


as for the paint being gooey i have never had that trubble .
i think many people tend to go a little to nuts with metal prep products . 1st is many people tend to strip the finish off way to soon or before they are even close to geting to work on that panel .
when a car comes into my shop that needs to be stripped we will take the panel off the car then only blast or strip the main body 1st leaving the rest of the panel alone for now . we will then sand the every thing that is been blasted with 180 grit and get a coat of e-primer on all the bare metal . no need for any metal wash or wd at that time .
then start the body work on the main body . that is when we have to open the area back up to bare metal . we then if it is going to sit for more than a day or two spray a coat of wd over the bare metal area . when we go back on the job we wipe it off and finish the body work .
you can not get wd or any other metal prep on body filler so if your in that stage of the repair you can cover the bare metal with the cheap green masking paper to stop any moisture from getting at the bare metal . you should never blast the hole car and then just let it sit in bare metal even if you coat it with wd or a metal wash . we only use it for over the weekends and if it has to sit when we are waiting for a part .
wd is just an oil like when you buy a piece of bare sheet metal it comes oiled up so it will not rust . you only have to wipe that down too with a per paint cleaner to remove the oil from it and that too will not give bed adhesion later on if you wtpe the oil off it .
Old 10-01-2013, 07:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Rick
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sanford, NC
Posts: 51
Garage
Thanks to all for the advice.

Rick
__________________
Rick
1970 911 E purchased in Stuttgart in 1973
Old 10-09-2013, 09:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:50 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.