Targa door gaps

[82 sportsc]

Am restoring 70 targa and the doors fit very well at sides and bottom.
No evidence that doors have been off or any damage and no rust .
All the lines at top front edge of door and rear seem right on.
How to get a tighter (4mm ) fit at top gap ?
Thanks for assistance
A

[bobrestore]

if you have stripped the paint on many doors you will see in some cases a lot of lead in the front upper part of the door. the lead is fairly easy to place there because there is a supporting flange adjacent to help it pile up. now on the back upper part of the door they can not achieve a gap by putting lead on the door edge so thy put it on the quarter panel to help make the gap. its not as accommodating an area to easily pile it on. and its a broader area to do to make it blend into the upper part of the striker area just below the elevation of the quarter window.... what I have done is use a dull chisel or similar tool and from inside the wheel well drive the quarter panel seam slowly carefully forward.... bob

[962porsche]

82 are you saying all the gaps look good all the way around the door but just look a little to large ( or are to large) ?

[82 sportsc]

I cannot post photos ......security settings too strong.
I can easily post photos on early 911 s site but never on the bird.
I don't get it.
I can send via email to 962 and bobrestore if you can send me your email.
Thanks for assistance

[962porsche]

the 1st thing i tend to try and do is adjust the gaps .
many times its just a simple adjustment this is why you will find shim's so often on the porsche hinges and under the striker .
you also have to remember the gaps porsche shoots for is not always 100% spot on !
reality like everything does have a tolerance to it .
again your dealing with a hand built car like ferrari , lamborghini they too post a gap size but in fact after working on countless non are really spot on .

[bobrestore]

what 962porsche sais is true... hand built and at the back top of door to q panel this especially applies.... you can imagine the guy at the factory trying to fill that area with enough lead to get the gap "looking" ok.... If he did not get it on the first application of lead it gets tricky to make the fill.... you do see cars that are a little wider at that area because of that... bottom line you build to your personal likes....

[bobrestore]

here is a picture of my 9/12 door gap.... It is not as tight as it looks down by the door handle ...it is an optical distortion of the photo..........

[bobrestore]

the door by design lends to filling the front edge of the door.... this could mitigate a larger fill at the back q panel area if the rest of the door gaps are workable.... I have seen more than a 1/4 inch of lead on the front of door edge that was from the factory...

[petercory]

The gap increases substantially from the door handle to the top of the door on all 911's; the gap at the rear of the door should not be the same all the way from the bottom to the top of the door.

[82 sportsc]

The hanks for all commentary , my 3 coupes have great and consistent gaps.
My 82 targa,83 cab and now the 70 targa all have the same wider gap as previously mentioned.
I know the flex associated with Targa's and Cab's .....but all except the 70 are original and never been apart. So thought the restorations of the 70 targa would be an oppurtunity to improve but seems with comments and the others I have it's really factory with these body types.
Would love to see a couple of restores and original Targa's door gaps to illustrate observations and what might be possible.
Any recent Targa's restored photos ?
Thanks for all efforts

[bobrestore]

you have got the right idea...... go to a Porsche cars and coffee or somewhere that a lot of vintage Porsches may be..... probably if you search on line you may find some high-resolution pictures maybe the singer or Magnus site for instance or even capepa.... I have owned Porsches for almost 50 years and I love their design and workmanship. if the wider gap was by design it would be reflected in their shop drawings... its not.... but I like the consistent gap and don't mind the extra work to honor the designers of the car. if some goon tells you your gaps are too good you can blow them off with a great big smile ... ultimately its what you want your car to look like.... I am not saying some cars were not finished with the wider gap .... I am saying that the designers did not design the car to have a wider gap....

[962porsche]

this door gap topic has been debated way to many times .
a few years ago i did a hole write up as to why porsche did do a tapered gaps at the rear door edges .
in it i posted celette bench fixtures as to show when they are setup the car will get the spec gaps .
i also posted a number of measurements and technical drawing from when i worked at Porsache AG.
i own the factory gap tool state in the tool tur hinten oben and untere hinten unten i posted the photo of that too .
i said just why the tapered gaps were used and how and why they were designed into the cars design by the end of it's testing .

this is a pointless debate as there really isn't one for this topic !

[bobrestore]

that's really a great story ... were can I find the report or Tec spec that shows those dimensions ... I think that it was a shop floor decision, if that, not intended by the designers, but a way to mitigate the large difficult fill needed in that area... can you please list the bullet points as to why the redesign had to be made after testing?..... I am curious by my training ... I utilized forensic engineering to resolve highway engineering problems... some were solved by simply converting metric calculations to tenths of a foot , some were very simple math errors, some were more difficult formula exponent loss while caring out a function and incorrect observation of lay out line in relation to stationing.........bob

[962porsche]

if you had a bad gap on a panel with a pinch weld or folded over lip the extension of the panel is very easy .
to close up a gap you would use a piece or welding rod or small round stock to do this .

strip the finish down to bare prepped for welding line up the piece of stock to the area you need to close up and weld it to the end of the rolled edge .

the pluses from doing this are .
all wheel are on the fround as the car should be sitting at static ride height so there should be no twist to the chassis .
then if you do your welds good you will or can metal finish it and primer needing no filler at all.
you would shape the added piece very easy with a 2 or 3" grinder with 24 grit you would shape all sides then when your close to the shape you switch to 80 grit grinding disc still with the 2 or 3" disc .
after that you can back sand and finish sanding with a DA using 180 or 220 .
back sand and feather edging is pretty much the same thing .
at this point you shouldn't need any filler if you have a little pin hole in a weld you can spot weld it or skin it with a filler .

this type of fix is the industry standard it's the fastest , lowest cost and less intrusive .

[bobrestore]

yes, 962porsche ... that's a valid method ... you can easily get a mm or 2 without it being noticeable.........

[962porsche]

yes bob it's just how it's done in reality you can get more then a MM or 2 you can get that just by running a bead weld down the edge of the rolled edge .
there are many ways to close up a gap . another is to unfold the fold over and rebend it to were it needs to be . they are standard as to how you do in in the industry .

[962porsche]

your other option would be to slice the QTR just before the roll of the QTR into the striker plate .
one reason for this is not to have any filler on the edge of the jam . the other reason is trying to hit out a striker /QTR edge there is no place to get extra metal from . it has to stretch from some place .
by hitting the inside edge with a cold chisel and hammer you will do nothing but make a total mess out of the QTR edge . 1st your dealing with a over lapped panel with the very edge only being a single of just the QTR panels metal .
then another bad thing about moving a striker plate on a angle is if you need to go allot with it ( move it a lot )you will no dough have the striker plate set on a angle this will make the latch and striker not match up when you close the door giving you a crappy latching .
so if you need to go more then a few MM's then you would also need to move the hole striker plate forward evenly not to screw up the latch and striker closing properly .

again the industry standard is to cut the panel and move the hole panel forward .
by doing so you will not make a total mess of the car and the work load is much less.
this too if done properly you would not need any filler work if you did it would only be a tight skim coat and it would not be on the edge of the jam were it could be damaged and subject to chipping .

[bobrestore]

yes I agree with you.... if it is a wide gap cutting the q panel and moving the lock plate area forward would be the best..... he will need to clean the existing lead thoroughly and with his welding machine he could carefully weld it together.... if he needs just a little to make the gap you can hit it from the inside . I have done that and it worked out fine ...no edge that was filled and could later chip.. I must confess while answering his request I did not want him to lose control and warp the panel .... I will admit that if it was my car and the gap was large I would cut and weld the q panel as you show............. best regards P.S. might want to put moistbestos on the lock plate area so that area does not accidently melt.

[82 sportsc]

Guys
Thanks for the great input. Really appreciate the sketches and descriptions .
It's nice to have those with rare talents spend time to raise the bar and adresss issues