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when to wax after paint

Its been over a month since my paint job (two stage, color and clear). What and when should be used at this point as far as a protectant / shine enhancement. Is wax the way to go or a synthetic product like Newfinish (which I like)?

Thanks,

Chris
73 911 E
Old 07-10-2012, 08:33 AM
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products like new finish are totaly point less ! all you need as a quality wax . you should not wax a car with a fresh paint job untill it's totaly cured . when you can put your finger nail into the finish and it does not leave any mark from doing so then you can wax the car . if you wax a car to soon after it's painted the paint will not cure the way it should . you can how ever use products like a detail spray on a new paint job with out doing any damage to the finish .
Old 07-10-2012, 08:47 AM
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Make sure any detail products that you use don't contain any silicon. Agree with the above let it harden for a couple of weeks, give it a quick clay bar if you've been driving it to remove any contaminates, then wax to your hearts content.

I like to get the wet look so I wax with a synthetic, and then wax with a traditional.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:14 PM
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Classic, what products do you recommend? I had used Newfinish on all my cars in that it goes on and off real easy and beads water for about a year (as advertised) But not sure what it is so don't want to use it at this point until I know.

What synthetic do you use? I assume all expensive Canabu (something like that) waxes are basically the same...right.

It's been 6 weeks since paint so should be ready.

Thanks again,


Chris
Old 07-10-2012, 12:29 PM
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GorillaFoot
 
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I have been detailing cars since I was 9 years old, have done it professionaly, but learned the most about proper car care in the last 5 years, mainly from spending time on detailers internet forums, then taking that knowledge and using it on my own cars

Carnauba waxes, just like synthethics, are all different. You typical Auto Zone carnuba will have about 5% carnauba and 95% something else. A $2000 jar of "pure" carnuba will have no more than 85% carnauba in it's contents. Read the wording carefully and you will see this to be true.

The problem with carnauba waxes is, they don't last very long. They are not very resistent to heat, so one day in the parking lot on a hot day and that wax starts breaking down. If all you used was carnuba, and the car is a daily driver, your paint will be unprotected in a few weeks.

Synthetics last longer as they are more heat tolerant. Historically, they have not been known for their shine, but that has changed dramatically in the past 10 years. Your Nufinish is really bottom of the barrell synthetic. If you can buy it at a drug store, you not dealing with good product.

I converse with people that are the best in the business. Guys who get flown all over the world by customers, will charge $5000+ and spend weeks prepping the finest vehicles in the world for concourse events. I'll keep things simple here- people that truly know how to take care of their paint will use a synthetic as a base and when they want a little extra pop for a car show, will put a coat or two of carnauba on top of it.

I would recommend P21S carnauba for your wax coat and a product called Blackfire Wet Diamond. I recomend them as they are both excellent products, shine is incredible, EXTREMELY easy to use and the Blackfire will truly protect your paint in all weather for a good 6 months.. You can buy both of these products at Autopia Car Care Products - Car Detailing Supplies, Car Wax, Car Polishers, Auto Detailing.

While you are there, get yourself some polishing and drying towels (your bath towels destroy paint) and sign up to their forum. Some of the best detailers in the world show their work there and go into great detail on how they do what they do. You will be amazed at what a true detailer does and can do in order to create a REAL showcar shine. Most people have no idea.
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1989 951- As graphics have been added, it's less red, but read more. Stock has been socked. Caged, stripped, bump sticked, blown, chipped and tweaked, rollin' on Hoosiers.

Last edited by GorillaFoot; 07-11-2012 at 05:58 AM..
Old 07-11-2012, 05:38 AM
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FYI- that guy that washes cars in your office parking lot or charge $125 for a "full detail". Those are not guys your want to take advice from.
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1989 951- As graphics have been added, it's less red, but read more. Stock has been socked. Caged, stripped, bump sticked, blown, chipped and tweaked, rollin' on Hoosiers.
Old 07-11-2012, 05:42 AM
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Gorillafoot, EXCELLENT info! Exactly what I was looking for. One question as I just want to be clear. I apply the Blackfire Wet Diamond first, then the P21S.


Just ordered both...not cheap but great reviews everywhere.


Chris

Last edited by cmcfaul; 07-11-2012 at 06:19 AM..
Old 07-11-2012, 05:49 AM
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Yes, Blackfire first, then the P21S.

Blackfire is insanely good. Well worth every penny. Wait until you see how easy it is to work with. Removal is so easy you'd think it was a joke.

P21S is very easy too- you put it on then immediately swipe it off. YOU DON'T LET IT DRY.

Just remember what I said about towels. I hope you ordered some microfiber polishing and drying towels... Nothing wrecks paint like regular towels. Those swirl marks you see are from crappy towels and for a few bucks more, you never have to worry about swirl marks again.
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1989 951- As graphics have been added, it's less red, but read more. Stock has been socked. Caged, stripped, bump sticked, blown, chipped and tweaked, rollin' on Hoosiers.
Old 07-11-2012, 06:40 AM
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Chris, sorry but it looks like your thread got hijacked. At least you got your answer.
Gorillafoot, your comments are really interesting. I just went through the whole removing swirls/polishing/ waxing process using the Groits products all according to the video-carefully did the concours process where you lay three coats of wax (dry in between) and leave it overnight and then wipe it off (read "elbow grease"). Shine is good but Not that fabulous. What was disappointing is that the white residue continues to re-appear on edges after several washes and it's really hard to get it off without scratching. I am really PO'd. I found the various polishing compounds to be easy and safe to use to get the swirl marks out but their "best" wax ...... I'll go back to P21S and will add Blackfire to my list.
Old 07-12-2012, 02:10 AM
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Not Hijacked. Exactly the discussion I was hoping for.

Chris
Old 07-12-2012, 04:40 AM
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GorillaFoot
 
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Uwon- Try some rubbing alcohol and a q-tip to get rid of the excess wax/polish

In making the following statements, I'll assume you used their random orbital polisher kit for your Griot's detail. I started with the Griot products when I did my first machine polish and I was unsatisfied as well.

- I don't like their pads. I have tried many pads and they all work differently with different paints, polishes and waxes. The wrong combo and you'll have cloudiness and an uneven finish
-I don't like their polish or compound, everything came out a bit dull
-The Griots random polisher is fine, really no different from the Porter Cable

So here are a list of what I have found to be best overall products for a safe machine detail and fantastic results. If you read Autopia's forum, you will find the top detailers use the same stuff (I dare you to find one Griot's product used by a true pro) and some of it can actually be found at your local stores:

Found at the auto parts store:

-Meguiars Gold Class car shampoo
-3M GREEN autobody tape.
-Meguiars clay bar kit
-Meguiars Ultra Cut Compound M105
-Meguiars Ultra Fine Polish M205 (M105 & 205 are found in the autobody section, not the detailing section of the store)
-Not sure the name, but it's a green washing sponge with like, a shag rug on one side.

Stuff found at TARGET. Yes, Target:

-Yellow microfiber drying towels!!!! $10 a piece! I have tried 4 different professional quality drying towels and, believe it or not, found these to be the best for drying.

Stuff found at Autopia-

-P21S Total Auto Wash. The best stuff for safely cleaning wheels, engines, interior and stripping sealant/waxes off paint prior to a good detail
-Lake Country FLAT or HYDROTECH pads. Stay away from the waffle faced pads. You will need/want the Orange, White and Gray pads in different sizes and a few of each. These work the best with the Meg M105 and M205.
-Blackfire Wet Diamond
-P21S wax (blue top)
-Microfiber polishing cloths

And this is just for the PAINT.

I know this is a long list and I probably seem very anal right now. But I have spent years and thousands of dollars on crap products, doing jobs I was never really satisfied with and it's flippin' frustrating. You wash and wax, but there are those swirl marks still, or you stand back and think it still doesn't look the way I want. Well, I had enough. I read and asked a lot of questions to REAL pros that have taken car detailing to a level that most people never knew existed. I then bought a bunch of products suggested. With a little practice, my cars always look like new. Actually, better than new. Even my 2009 Subaru that never sees a garage looks better than my Dad's ALWAYS garaged 2011 Lexus LS460 and with all my washing and drying, I have not created a swirl mark on my cars in years.

Buy these products, read what the pros do, experiment and you will always be happy. And no, I am not a shill for Autopia. They just have the best selection of the best products. I can't tell you what a great resource their forum is. The best detailers in the world converse here and love fielding questions for newbies. Take a look at some of Todd Helme's work- unbelievable.
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1989 951- As graphics have been added, it's less red, but read more. Stock has been socked. Caged, stripped, bump sticked, blown, chipped and tweaked, rollin' on Hoosiers.

Last edited by GorillaFoot; 07-12-2012 at 05:48 AM..
Old 07-12-2012, 05:11 AM
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And no, without a machine polisher, you will never, ever, get the results we are all looking for. A random orbital polisher, like the Griots, Meguiars or Porter Cable will never burn your paint. I spent 45 minutes training my brother-in law, who was terrified using a polisher on his new BMW and now that he has seen the light, will never hand polish again.

And no, you can't skip any part of the process on the first detail:

-Wash and strip old waxes with P21S Total Auto Wash
-Clay bar
-Tape off rubber seals and seams
-Compound
-Polish
-Seal
-Wax (Actually, after the Blackfire, you may see no need for wax- it's that good)

After that first detail, you can skip the compounding for when you really need it.
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1989 951- As graphics have been added, it's less red, but read more. Stock has been socked. Caged, stripped, bump sticked, blown, chipped and tweaked, rollin' on Hoosiers.
Old 07-12-2012, 06:03 AM
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Chris, soory I didn't get back sooner but you have some great products listed above and advise, I will add when you tape up your trim, I like to use the blue painters tape, as it won't leave any residue.

+ 1 on the micro fiber towels, and wash them in warm water after use. I like to keep all mine in a sealed container, and if you drop one don't use it until it's washed.

I like to use a grit guard in my buckets, yes I use two.

Living in Australia the sun is really harsh on wax, plus I live about 300 meters from the ocean, so a lot of salt spray in the air. I give all my cars two coats of synthetic (auto glum / meguires) and if we're going for a show or club drive I'll put a layer of carnauba wax, but as stated above it will only last a couple of days, but the synthetic will protect the paint for about 6 to 12 months depending on your environment.

Have fun, I know you'll be happy with the out come with the products mentioned.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:25 PM
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GorillaFoot, yes, I used Groit's orbital sander which is foolproof. I'll follow the above procedure next time I detail the cars and then I'll post my results. Cheers, Uwon
Old 07-13-2012, 05:53 AM
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Couple questions.

1. I have an orbital Polisher but not sure how to use it. The Sealant goes on, hazes then comes off. Where does the orbital machine come into play.

2. Same questions as above for the wax. Also, if the wax only lasts a couple days in the sun, what's the point?

Many thanks for all the advice and tips.

Chris
Old 07-13-2012, 12:06 PM
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GorillaFoot
 
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First, there are three major differences between a orbital polisher you get at K-mart and those mentioned above.

1. Speed. The cheap ones go to maybe 2000rpm. The good ones go to 6-7000rpm
2. Build quality- solid units give more consistent finishes
3. Pad selection/quality. The bonnets that go on the cheap orbitals are worse than hand polishing. Terrible.

So if you don't have a good one, you should.

Using a good orbital is very easy with a little instruction and some understanding of pressure, orbiltal speed and how they relate to the pads and products used. It's not rocket science, but different paints react differently to different techniques and products. The great thing about the products listed above is that you can use them on a soft paint, like our older Porsches, or a new Lexus with ultra hard paint, and still get very similar results. AND IT'S SO MUCH EASIER! Good lord, the number of hours I have spent breaking myself to get a good finish with crappy products. Ugh!

Now, I would NOT use an orbital for the P21S. Tt's perfectly safe to do so with the Blackfire, but you don't need it at all. You're right- spread on, take off. The orbital is really for polishes and compounds. Unless your hand can spin at 5000rpm, you just can't get a perfect finish, fixing imperfections and making the paint smooth as glass with elbow grease. Did you see the cars featured on the Autopia forum? Those finishes are not some trickery with filled in scratches. That paint is fixed! The sealant and waxes did not make that paint shine- the compounds and polishes removed the scratches and smoothed the paint!

To your second question, on a day to day basis, a relatively pure carnauba is a waste. It's really for the car shows and to make you feel good. With P21S, I can wax two cars in about a twenty minutes , so if you like a little more pop to the paint for a few days, there you go! It does add an extra, sacrificial layer of protection, but by the next wash, you can actually feel the broken down wax as you dry the car. The paint still seems shiny, but your towel doesn't slide across too well.

I still use my P21S on occasion, but the Blackfire is my "go to" product. I haven't washed my Subaru in 2 weeks, or sealed it in 3 months. We have gotten rain for the past 5 days, much of which I had to drive through. Yet it's still the shiniest car in the parking lot, the water beads like crazy and the water blasts right off as soon as I'm under way. Love that stuff!
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1989 951- As graphics have been added, it's less red, but read more. Stock has been socked. Caged, stripped, bump sticked, blown, chipped and tweaked, rollin' on Hoosiers.

Last edited by GorillaFoot; 07-13-2012 at 01:03 PM..
Old 07-13-2012, 12:56 PM
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I laughter at myself when I re-read my last post where I referred to my Groit's orbital "sander" rather than polisher. have a good weekend. Cheers.
Old 07-13-2012, 04:05 PM
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Uwon - I just picked up on that remark and was about to ask!

nice thread! some good qs answered!
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:24 AM
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GorillaFoot,
There are several "Blackfire Wet Diamond" products, such as Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finnish Paint Protection and Blackfire Crystal Seal Paint Sealant. Which one are you referring to in your posts?
Old 07-16-2012, 11:45 AM
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The paint protection. The crystal seal stuff, from various manufacturers, has been making its way through the detailing community, but I have not tried it yet. It seems akin to the "paint protection" that car dealerships sell, like an extra fine, extra strong layer of clearcoat. It may be a great product, but I am always leary about car dealerships and since you have do do all the same prep work, and it does not protect against scratching, I really can't see the use for it.

Like I said though, I haven't used it yet, so I don't want to bad mouth any new product without trying it myself first.
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1989 951- As graphics have been added, it's less red, but read more. Stock has been socked. Caged, stripped, bump sticked, blown, chipped and tweaked, rollin' on Hoosiers.
Old 07-16-2012, 01:32 PM
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