Seinfeld's '73 RS

[Superman]

I saw Comedians going for Coffee and fell in love again with my high school sweetheart, the '73 RS. I wonder what it would cost to build one to that spec. Kind of a silly question because this is a special car and every detail would need to be correct. Correct pistons, MFI, thin glass, thin sheet metal, blah blah. Still, I wonder what it would take to turn an SC into an early RS.

Before I go to the expense, let me just say I'll offer a nice '78 SC for a perfect, correct- spec RS......straight across. I'll throw in some spare parts.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Superman

I saw Comedians going for Coffee and fell in love again with my high school sweetheart, the '73 RS. I wonder what it would cost to build one to that spec. Kind of a silly question because this is a special car and every detail would need to be correct. Correct pistons, MFI, thin glass, thin sheet metal, blah blah. Still, I wonder what it would take to turn an SC into an early RS.

Before I go to the expense, let me just say I'll offer a nice '78 SC for a perfect, correct- spec RS......straight across. I'll throw in some spare parts.

For it's day it was special, still a nice car but nothing special compared to what you can build w/ more modern components.

It's best attribute is the clean look, followed by relatively light weight which leads to decent performance. power to weight is ~11.9(210hp/2365#), an '83 SC RoW(2552/204) w/ 930/10 has almost the same power to weight. An '84 Carrera 3.2 RoW(2662/231) is slightly lower @11.5

Lighten an SC or Carrera and 11.9 is easily met. The dynamics of the '73RS can be best met by lightening the f & r bumpers to reduce polar moment.

The wheels and tires(6 & 7 x15) on a '73 RS were state of the art in 1973 but the art has moved on. Throw some 8 & 9.5 on and grip is vastly improved, pay attention to weight and tire OD and the inertial and gearing costs aren't going to hurt too badly.

go all out and throw a 993 3.6 into the car and power to weight around 8-9 is easily achievable, for comparison the 2.8RSR is ~6.6 and the '74 3.0RS is ~8.6

[nathanbs]

Your ‘78 SC is worth probably 1/3-1/5 of a well built RS spec car

[manbridge 74]

I believe the first 500 were the light cars, in the 2100lb range. The later heavier touring model still had the light roof (you can use your thumb to press roof center, easily noticed) and reinforced tunnel area by the shift coupler. I've also read they were weighed at a full tank of gas and half cargo load but only sure way to know would be to weigh a couple.

[cmcfaul]

Need to drive one to truly appreciate it.

Chris

73E
89 Carrera

[NYNick]

I still remember that hottie I dated in college in 1973. Never forget her.

She's 65 years old now. Listen to Bill.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

I believe the first 500 were the light cars, in the 2100lb range.

I remember seeing a factory lightweight version at the Blackhawk Museum when doing the Pebble Beach week in 1995. Not super rare like the SCRS but IIRC only 200 or thereabouts were made.

Would the one I saw be in the group of those first out of the factory or was there a separate run of super light weight RS's?

Just curious.

[needspeed]

https://www.supercars.net/blog/1973-porsche-911-carrera-rs-2-7-lightweight/

Not sure how accurate the site is. It reports the Lightweight RS curb weight at 1985lbs. Impressive. Makes my '87 look like Fat Bastard.
I watched the CCC episode with Seth Myers and the '73 RS a few times. Jerry's car looks like the Touring version.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by needspeed

https://www.supercars.net/blog/1973-porsche-911-carrera-rs-2-7-lightweight/

Not sure how accurate the site is. It reports the Lightweight RS curb weight at 1985lbs. Impressive. Makes my '87 look like Fat Bastard.
I watched the CCC episode with Seth Myers and the '73 RS a few times. Jerry's car looks like the Touring version.

Thanks for the link.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by NYNick

I still remember that hottie I dated in college in 1973. Never forget her.

She's 65 years old now. Listen to Bill.

They are pretty cars. But old! There are lots of clones out there! You can save a ton and just buy someones project, finished or almost done. A real one is stupid money.

They had a real one at Porsche Parade. He even had the original owners manual and goodies on display. It was almost funny to see so many "old guys" that know what a real RS really is stop, look and take pictures of it. I did the same thing so I can't make fun of them.

[Bill Verburg]

Want to emulate a '73RS( or better) w/o swapping motors?
1) to get the throttle response swap in ITBs w/ Motec or equivalent EFI controller, bonus points for raised compression and a happier cam set. Cheaper alternative is carbs, but there are drawbacks to that.


2) cornering dynamics need low polar moment so swap in f/r or c/f bumpers, lighten up every where, use 7 & 8 x15 wheels w/ 205/50 & 225/50 tires(even better use 205/50 & 205/45 tires), Bilstein shocks (or better) a little beefier t-bars won't hurt, adj. sways won't hurt.

3) aero is important, you need f/r spoilers

You can get more power or even better grip by swapping engines, using a different trans./gearing, wheels/tires etc. It just takes time and a budget.

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by needspeed

https://www.supercars.net/blog/1973-porsche-911-carrera-rs-2-7-lightweight/

Not sure how accurate the site is. It reports the Lightweight RS curb weight at 1985lbs. Impressive. Makes my '87 look like Fat Bastard.
I watched the CCC episode with Seth Myers and the '73 RS a few times. Jerry's car looks like the Touring version.

I have an old British magazine that claims the 1985lbs as dry weight, no gas or oil etc.

[dwelle]

73 rs tribute 3.2 $70,000

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

I have an old British magazine that claims the 1985lbs as dry weight, no gas or oil etc.

RS M491 a 2.8RSR weight was listed as 900kg(1980#)

RS M472 (aka Touring) was based on the S and was listed @1080kg(2365#)

RS M471 was 1075kg this was the base model

[dicklague]

my '73 RS tribute was built by TRE about 30 years ago. I have owned it 20 years and have done lots to fine tune and restore it over the years.

When I bought the 1973, the body work was a 20" proposition and the mechanicals were quite good. 2.7 MFI motor with low 1500 miles on it built by Mark Kinninger at Black Forest in San Diego. Good suspension with great brakes including braided steel brake lines.

Proper RS Fuchs wheels etc..

We did a full bare metal restoration in 2005 including carbon hood. Fixed some mild rust spots and a great paint job.


Over the years we did more work and maintenance including redoing the 915 with bearings, gears, WEVO internal shift gate etc.

Car weights 2170 lbs.

Has 250K miles on it [I have done 140K of those miles.
VERY VERY STRONG and reliable car.

MFI is superb with full time AFR data logging and fine tuning that we did.

There is nothing like a real 2.7 MFI with Bursch exhaust!!!!

AT WILLOW SPRINGS

[Superman]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Your ‘78 SC is worth probably 1/3-1/5 of a well built RS spec car

I was kidding about the trade idea. Unless of course, someone has a correct-spec '73 RS clone they want to talk with me about.

Originally Posted by cmcfaul

Need to drive one to truly appreciate it.

Everything I have read about this car supports precisely this statement. Lore suggests that this car just happened to have the *perfect* combination of everything, and that everything works together as a whole. Really great cars are like 2+2 = 4. This car is 2+2 = 5.

Originally Posted by dicklague

2.7 MFI

This, according to my understanding, is a big part of the above. I am told that the throttle response is so immediate that when you press against the gas pedal a little, it feels like you are pushing the car forward with your toe.

Originally Posted by dicklague

Car weights 2170 lbs.

That's 10%/200 lbs too heavy. though, I am confident your car is a BLAST to drive.

__________________________

According to all I have read over the years, this car is special. More special than someone (like me) can understand who has not driven one.

It is nigh on impossible to build one. The lightweights had thinner glass, thinner sheet metal, blah blah.

I wonder what happened to the tooling. If a guy had the dies they used to press-form panels such as front fenders, hoods, rear decks, door skins, etc., they could make a fortune.

[dicklague]

Originally Posted by dicklague View Post
Car weights 2170 lbs.
"That's 10%/200 lbs too heavy. though, I am confident your car is a BLAST to drive."

I am not sure many of the lightweights that are actually under 2000 lbs. I don't mind that mine is a little heavy It is a 1973 with standard metal thickness, and no thin glass.

It even has a sunroof which many RSs had.

The stock lightweight seats are cool ......well until you drive the car much. I have very comfortable Recaros [and heavier] in the car. I also have a factory roll bar.

Also police scanner and built in radar and laser detector/shifter.

Yes it is a blast to drive, and the MFI is awesome.

[dicklague]

Originally Posted by Superman

I was kidding about the trade idea. Unless of course, someone has a correct-spec '73 RS clone they want to talk with me about.


I wonder what happened to the tooling. If a guy had the dies they used to press-form panels such as front fenders, hoods, rear decks, door skins, etc., they could make a fortune.

Everything used the stock stamping dies. doors, hoods, rear decks etc..

Some rear decks have an aluminum base, some have steel. ALL have the fiberglass ducktail "Burzel" added on top of steel or aluminum. My '73 has one of these and TRE tells me it is worth a fortune.

The rear flares were welded on all the 1973s. All the real RS cars have welded on rear flares.

In 1974 they had dies that had the flares built into the rear quarters.

[lvporschepilot]

Did the 73 RS use the same gauge steel as other models at the time? I believe the answer is yes other than the earliest 500 examples which used the aforementioned thinner ' roof bendable' gauge steel. What year did they swap to the thicker gauge? 76-78? Then thicker again in 83-84?

As a reference for whatever reason: I noticed the early weld-on RS flares that were available for purchase were indeed made with thinner gauge steel than the later versions.

It seems that for every year Porsche added more power, the car gained more weight somewhat negating any additional power effect. It was to the point that a 89 911 drives completely different than say a 74 MFI Carrera, totally different cars and I'm not just talking gearboxes.

[Bill Douglas]

I vaguely remember a dispute where a fulla hadn't done enough due diligence on a '73 RS purchase. He thought he was buying one of the early leichtmetall first 500 cars, whereas it turned out to be a 911T with the chassis number/ID plate and the fancy bits moved over. Evidently it wasn't uncommon for a racecar to get wrecked and the Porsche factory haul an available body out of the warehouse (in this case a 911T) and present the car as having had a factory makeover and as good as new. The guy lost the case and was left with a VERY expensive replica