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I have a 944, but regularly read and post here on the 911 forum as well (oops, I let the cat out of the bag!) Most of us here are tech heads and are well versed with out 'puters work: it's not hard to get to another forum. Please guys, use the OT forum: it is designed to keep things flowing and in order. Thanks, -Z. |
Wayne.........
I have been a viewer, responder, and have asked numerous questions relative to technical issues. I have to say that I am turned off as well by threads that have no bearing on the subject of Porsche. These belong in some chat room! I come on to your site for technical information and am often in awe of the experience, intelligence and talent in this vast group of dedicated owners. The occasional, "Hey, how many donuts did you eat with your left hand while holding the steering wheel with your right while going 100 miles an hour through downtown Chicago", threads just does not lend itself to good informative reading, despite the multitude of responses. Keep it to Porsches folks! Bob 73.5 T |
Simple solution ... don't read it.
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Wayne,
Here are a couple other ideas: 1. Have you ever considered partnering with Rennlist? You are a parts dealer who provides web services as a bonus. They are a web business who advertises parts dealers. Your customers, I'm sure, are all aware of Performance Products, et al. and I doubt that you would lose any business if your bulletin board was on RennList (or just considered part of RennList). Then you could put more time into your books and tech articles rather than maintaining a BBS. 2. Do you know any unemployed Porsche driving web programmers who could make a better system for you? After all, with the recent .com fallout I'm sure there are some around. Such a person could help you get a better system working. -Eric (unemployed web programmer) ------------------ Eric Bradway '86 911 Targa http://www.bradway.net/porsche |
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------------------ Mark Szabo 1986 911 Targa 3.2 1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP The Porsche Owners Gallery |
It's a slippery slope, Wayne. Here's my take. A community is organic: it lives and breathes, and a virtual community is no different. People who say they want to see only topics relating directly to Porsche don't understand the nature of a virtual community. The thing they forget is this: some of the contributors of great technical content may in fact enjoy a smattering of OT posts. If OT posts (lighter reading, humor, shared experiences, etc.) go away, those same contributors may visit less often or go away altogether. The quality of the forum may degrade as a result, and people looking for fast responses to their technical queries may have to search elsewhere. Everything is tied together in a virtual community. I seen them come and go since 1994 (at the Well). You have a great community here, and it works symbiotically with the BBS (servers, software, network). Take one half away, and the other half offers no value.
The problem with offering an OT forum is that most people won't bother looking there. I would argue that many of the most "interesting" posts are OT--and that fact can be proven by examining the number of views and posts a topic receives. How well do those same topics do once they're moved to the OT forum. Ever analyzed it, Wayne? Give people some latitude; most posters use good judgement so far as I can tell. Lance. |
Ok, here's my response. First of all, as usual, there are a lot of people here talking about things they know nothing about!
That said, the problem is not with the hardware, but with InfoPop's BBS software. We first started having this problem about a year ago (when I first started archiving and removing posts). I emailed them and asked them what I could do. They said that I shouldn't be archiving that many posts, and that the software wasn't designed to handle that many. [NOTE, this what the company that makes the software said, not just what I had guessed!] Needless to say, the server is running on a 800 Mhx P3 box with 80 gigs of space and 1 GB of RAM. Server resources have nothing to do with it. For those techos out there, the Perl processes that run the software begin to hang, and timeout when the number of posts in the 911 forum gets too big. This can happen at any time of the day, and the problem is usually averted when the number of posts are reduced. For those of you who said that you have seen other UUBs out there with more posts, I challenge that! There are many other BBS software programs out there that have emulated the look and feel of UBB, to the point that you have to check the manufacturer. I have contemplated upgrading or transferring to another software manufacturer, but this is HUGE project, and one that is likely to immobilize the board for at least a day or two. Besides, it would be tough to figure out if I would have other problems with the new BBS software. This software has been running reliably for almost 3 years - I'm loathe to mess with something that works well. I will be archiving the posts for future searching. That is one of the reasons (also) that I haven't upgraded the software to the new version 6. It doesn't create static html pages that are searchable. Anyways, thanks for the suggestions, for those who have genuinely proposed them. The board is becoming a victim of its own success. As for OT posts, they belong in the forum that I created for OT posts. I don't have the time or energy to babysit the forums to make sure that they are on-topic. The OT forum is two-clicks away (at the bottom of the screen). There is no reason not to post there... -Wayne |
.......Wayne, OT posts are GOOD for you and your buisness. End of story.
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Wayne,
I figured you'd already addressed the hardware issues. Truth be told, I've heard of other legacy UBBs having problems with large numbers of posts to search. I'm going to check out what the large-scale forums are doing and using. This has actually prompted me to learn a little more about MySQL and Apache - putting my money where my mouth is, I guess. I'll let you know what I find out. In the meantime...growing pains are a natural part of a scalable website, as you know - it's how the growth is handled that makes or breaks a site. I think you'll do fine. ------------------ Mark Szabo 1986 911 Targa 3.2 1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP The Porsche Owners Gallery |
Oh, the irony of it. Not 30 minutes later, this ends up in my mailbox:
We're proud to announce that Infopop has acquired the WWWThreads message board from Wired Community Software. The leader of Wired Community Software, Rick Baker, has spent the last four years building an exciting, vibrant, feature-rich product. He will remain as the primary developer of the product, and will be a key part of the Infopop team. The software, now called UBBThreads™, is a SQL database driven message board written in PHP. Our goal is to provide our customers with the widest array of options for online community-building, and UBBThreads™ represents an important part of that plan, complimenting the impressive capabilities of our UBB™ software and OpenTopic™ application. There is a limited-time discounted rate available for UBB™ customers who wish to migrate to UBBThreads™ software. If you visit the Member Area, you can turn your UBB™ software license into a UBBThreads™ software license for $75 and receive a full year of UBBThreads™ Member Area access as well. There is also a transfer script available in our online Member Area to assist you with moving your members and messages (thanks to Philipp Esselbach for developing the import script). -Wayne |
Don't ya love when that happens? http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/biggrin.gif
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So, Wayne? Is $75 worth it?
Think the board will survive a generic migration script? http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif ------------------ Mark Szabo 1986 911 Targa 3.2 1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP The Porsche Owners Gallery |
Wayne,
Hope the "light" at the end of the tunnel isn't a train! I'd even be willing to go door to door to help collect the $75 bucks. Hopefully the contributors would be willing to give money and not leftover candy from Halloween! ------------------ Howie 79SC |
Wayne, jump onto that SQL driven bulletin board.
------------------ Ted Stringer nuke3@juno.com '84 911 Targa aka pocketrocket |
In about 3 hours last night, knowing nothing about MySQL, Apache, PHP, or vBulletin, I set up all the above and had working forums instantly. Pretty neat stuff.
vBulletin is a lot more like Infopop in terms of look and feel. UBBThreads is....completely different. Yuck. And they cost the same. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif Looks like vBulletin also has a UBB import tool...migrates forums, users, posts, all of it. I vote for vBulletin. ------------------ Mark Szabo 1986 911 Targa 3.2 1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP The Porsche Owners Gallery [This message has been edited by old_skul (edited 11-07-2001).] |
Let me know what you need, and I can ship you a few spare hard drives
------------------ Bill Atkins william.atkins@oracle.com 1985 Carrera Coupe |
No offense (although I am sure some will be taken) but I think some of you have confused this private board (run by Wayne) for a democracy. It is not. Wayne has to put the time and effort into maintaining this board at no direct cost to you (actually I think most of you should consider this a wonderful gratis resource). What price tag would you put on the info you've gained here at no cost? Because of this, his rules are the ones to be followed, like them or not. In addition, I don't think his request is at all unreasonable. I agree with posting off topic items on a separate board. They simply don't belong here.
That said, I am probably guilty of posting OT here once or twice. However, that is because I do not know where the OT board is...any help??? (NEVERMIND...I found it) Wayne if you point us (me) in that direction I will oblige your very reasonable request. [This message has been edited by J-RAD (edited 11-07-2001).] |
J-RAD,
I can understand your viewpoint, but I honestly don't think you see the whole picture. This forum, and others like it on the internet, represent a very valuable business asset. It is not *Wayne* that some of us are dissenting against - it's the "official Pelican Policy" of closing threads, off-topic or no, that would otherwise be perfectly harmless in the forum (if the BBS software worked correctly). Lastly, Pelican pays Wayne money. It's not like he's doing this out of the goodness of his heart (I could be wrong http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif ). So don't feel bad about expressing your opinion on a resource that is, at its core, made up of people like you and me - not the software behind it. ------------------ Mark Szabo 1986 911 Targa 3.2 1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP The Porsche Owners Gallery |
I use the board for technical assistance. Warren Hall and others coached me through a complete engine rebuild this year and I am more than grateful for the access to such a fine resource and group of people. It could be that my visiting becoming routine and I've been down the path once now, but it does seem that there is a little less technical interest as of late.
I also run an online retail business and understand Wayne's need to control certain aspects of the hardware side of this site. In short, I am glad to have this group as mentors and friends, but yield to the needs of the provider... Jack McAllister |
old_skul:
Not to belabor the point or argue with you but I think it is you that doesn't see the whole picture. You stated "it's the "official Pelican Policy" of closing threads, off-topic or no, that would otherwise be perfectly harmless in the forum". The point is that those posts don't belong here. This is not really a software issue (although according to Wayne there is an issue here as well), it's mainly a content issue in my view. This board can be simply viewed as a promotional tool and, as you point out, an asset to Pelican. Which also means, if not handled correctly, it can be a liability as well. Do you think this board and this site was created out of the goodness of their hearts? No (Not to say that they aren't wonderful, caring enthusiasts or anything as well http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif ). This board helps promote their business and bring their target market together, it's good for business - so long as the topic stays on their business. If someone comes to this board looking for tech info and finds nothing but garbage OT posts, what kind of message does that leave? Not a good one. However, if you come here and find great questions and answers, as I'm sure almost everyone here has done, then what is the message? It says these guys are knowledgable enthusiasts that I am willing to do business with...and other knowledgeable enthusiasts must think so too because they hang out here. By making an effort to reduce the OT posts now, Wayne is being proactive and cutting off a problem before it gets out of control. That is good management of the content and the money they are spending to run the site. OT has its place but its not here. Look at other well run enthusiast sites and you will see a dedicated OT forum as well (for example: www.clubb5.com ). Wayne is not saying don't post OT, just do it in the appropriate it spot. I really don't see why that is such is difficult task for some to accomplish. Just my $.0213987 (interest earned on my first $.02) [This message has been edited by J-RAD (edited 11-07-2001).] |
Whoa - you mean your current system doesn't use an SQL backend?
As far as bigger message boards, just look at Slashdot (http://www.slashdot.org). Millions of hits daily, tens-of-thousands of posts, cooking right along. The other possibility is to move to a nntp-based soluton - after all what you are doing here is emulating a news server. -Eric P.S. The $75 upgrade sounds like the way to go. Cheap too. There are free solutions out there, but that'll give a smooth upgrade path. ------------------ Eric Bradway '86 911 Targa http://www.bradway.net/porsche |
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When my girlfriend was in a car accident and was in the hospital for 4 months, a post on this very forum brought loads of flowers to her hospital room. When Nostatic bought his car, and then sold it because his wife didn't approve, everyone weighed in. It was OT - about a woman, not a Porsche. When the Twin Towers were hit, there were no end to OT posts - even Wayne started one - and we ranted on about everything and Krazy Kurt insulted Saffs and I made sure to look like a liberal pansy - and it was OT. When Leland left to go fight for our country's way of life - including the freedom of speech (cue the patriotic music, please), it was OT. These threads remain on the board today, and I say that this forum would not be as lively or vibrant or as interesting without them. Thank you. ------------------ Mark Szabo 1986 911 Targa 3.2 1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP The Porsche Owners Gallery |
Well said Mark, I could'nt agree with you more.
------------------ Grant 75 911s targa |
Hello
Wayne, jump onto that SQL driven bulletin board. I would wait for the first service pack http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif ¦Â testing can be time consuming. Gr¨¹sse |
Bob,
Congratulations on your advanced degree. I didn't even finish tech school. I ran out of money and had to move out of my parent's place. I worked my as<qwerty>s off instead. I'll try to keep my buzzwords to a minimum - I wouldn't want to upset a professional. ------------------ Mark Szabo 1986 911 Targa 3.2 1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP The Porsche Owners Gallery |
I still don't understand why it's so freakin' hard to place the OT posts in another spot on THIS SAME BOARD! It literally takes two clicks to get there, and there are many people from the other 914/944/R1100S forums there as well...
I don't have time to do a major BBS upgrade before the end of the year. It's one thing to install and test a demo with 5 users. It's another thing to transition a board that gets this much traffic... -Wayne |
I still don't understand why it's so freakin' hard to place the OT posts in another spot on THIS SAME BOARD! It literally takes two clicks to get there, and there are many people from the other 914/944/R1100S forums there as well...
I don't have time to do a major BBS upgrade before the end of the year. It's one thing to install and test a demo with 5 users. It's another thing to transition a board that gets this much traffic... -Wayne |
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I guess we'll agree to disagree but untlimately it's Wayne's call. He has made it very clear as to what his expectation for this forum should be. There will always be a small amount of OT traffic but those familar with the expectations of the board should understand which forum is appropriate for their topic and post there accordingly. It's not a difficult task or concept to follow. With that said, you shouldn't be surprised or upset to see your thread closed and moved to the appropriate place. [This message has been edited by J-RAD (edited 11-08-2001).] |
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I've seen it happen on other forums. Example: The Online Gaming League. Their forums had tens of thousands of posts, with heavy website traffic that generated a lot of hits (and a lot of advertising revenue). The moderator implemented a foul-language filter, and then started closing (and deleting) OT threads. Within two months, a new website had been opened by a disgruntled user, with a much more open policy for the forums. Today, that website has the entire community - and the ad revenue too. Yes, I agree, it's Pelican's call as to how to moderate the forums. I am vehemently against the closure or removal of OT threads. I also stand against using language filters and tolerate the one on this site simply because I know how to get around it if I want to (and I seldom need to anyway). Pelican's policy on this matter will determine what this "community" does, and I'm simply pointing that out along with the idea that this captive "community" is a business asset to the business entity. ------------------ Mark Szabo 1986 911 Targa 3.2 1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP The Porsche Owners Gallery |
Let me say, the OT forum should be one click away, not too. You have to click to the forum list, look around, scroll down, then click.
There should be a short cut directly to it on the main 911 tech page...just a thought. A television is usually not going to be more than 6 to 10 feet away from any viewer. That doesn't prevent the viewer from tearing the house apart looking for the remote so he can browse stations without moving at all. It's the same thing with finding the OT forum. Put a link directly to it if you can. |
Everything else aside listen to old_skul - he knows how these forums work. You can destroy the balance pretty quickly. This thing has a "life" to it, it's not about servers or software or even ownership. It's a self-sustaining community.
One thing though. His point about the other sites being supported by "ad revenue". That must be a joke, right? http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif ------------------ <A HREF="http://bullit.solarproductions.com/rennsport/reunion2001/" TARGET=_blank>Visit the Virtual PORSCHE Rennsport Reunion Tour</A> |
consider this: there hasn't been a post on the 964 board here in over a week. i see the 964 owners (including me) over here.
why does this happen? interesting dynamic isn't it? ------------------ Daryl 964 Targa |
Love correcting links. For the above Rennlist link click:
here ------------------ '75 911S Targa '81 BMW Alpina C1 2.3 [This message has been edited by Saffs (edited 11-08-2001).] |
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Good lord, I have over 1100 posts now.
I don't care for riced-out cars, whether they're Japanese in origin or German. Rice is rice. (Did you know per capita China eats more rice than Japan?) Oh, and SUVs *do* suck: http://www.owners-gallery.com/uploads/ouch31.jpg ------------------ Mark Szabo 1986 911 Targa 3.2 1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9 RIP The Porsche Owners Gallery |
Wayne, if it's that much of hassle, don't save it - DUMP IT! Then see if anyone really cares. It sounds like a case of technology running peoples lives (do we really need to know everthing that everyone has said on this board?). Lose a thought? OH MY GOD!!!
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Wayne,
Personally, I'd much rather see you spending your time getting the (promised) Engine Rebuild book written and published. ------------------ '81 SC Coupe (aka: "Blue Bomber") Member: SCWDP Canada West Region PCA The Blue Bomber's Website "If it ain't broke...we'll help you fix it 'til it is!" |
I've got a due date on the of February 2002, however, those guys take their time getting it into print.
-Wayne |
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