Porsche North America Says Pelican Can't Use Fanatical.com Email...

[Wayne 962]

Ok, like I didn't have enough things to do lately. Here is the scoop:

Hi everyone. First, I'd like to thank you for signing up for your free email account. However, I have some relatively bad news. Porsche Cars North America (PCNA) has recently sent us an note from their lawyers stating that we are violating their trademarks on the following: 356,911,944,996,986, etc...

While I don't necessarily agree with them in principle, we have decided to abide by their wishes, which is to stop using the domain names for free email accounts. We figure that we'd rather spend our time and money on improving the site, and being better than our competitors instead of battling Porsche's legal department.

I have been working on a solution for the past month, and I have come up with a relatively painless way to make a transition here. All email accounts with a 'fanatical' address will be converted over to a pelicanbbs.com account. Not as cool as the fanatical emails, but there's not much that we can do about that right now.

So, in the future, the 911fanatic.com (etc.) addresses will disappear and will be replaced by pelicanbbs.com addresses. You will still be able to receive email from your account, but any sent email will have a return address as yourname@pelicanbbs.com.

If you have any questions, comments complaints, please email me back at wayne@pelicanparts.com.

Thanks for your help and understanding!

-Wayne

[Zendalar]

Hope they paid you some cash for letting those domains go.

Its a god damn number, and they complain, nowadays everything is somehow "patented"



[This message has been edited by Zendalar (edited 11-08-2001).]

[Adam]

Wayne,

I understand that it's better to avoid the conflict, but PCNA are rattling a fairly vague sabre. How do they know that email clients @911fanatic.com aren't infact avid fans of America's Rapid-response Emergency Services? Or perhaps they love re-runs of the TV show hosted by William Shatner?!

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Adam Chaplin
1976 911 2.7 Euro
My 911 Website
Pelican Gallery Page
Porsche Owners Gallery Page

[Wayne 962]

Some fights are not worth fighting. If there are some lawyers out there who wish to take up the issue pro-bono, then I will gladly transfer the domain names to you!



-Wayne

[rstoll]

Gee Wayne, I'm afraid I may have to file against you too. My wrists and neck are hurting real bad lately and I think it may be due to my addiction to the board.

[Zendalar]

Yea, and because of you I "lost" the cash I spent on my 911 Lawsuit is coming. Whoops, I mentioned 911 in a sentence and everybody can see it on the internet, wonder if get sued.

[Joeaksa]

Wayne,

How about an address so we can bombard these *****s and remind them that WE are the ones who own their product and support them!

As Adam said, just because someone puts the number "911" in a phrase, it does not mean that it has anything to do with Porsche or PCNA.

Suppose that they are going after the emergency services for stealing "their" number??!!

We have far too many lawyers in this country!

Joe

[cabman]

How in the world can you patent a number??

Only these high-powered over-paid corporate lawyers can sit in a conference room for hours on end and justify to themselves that this is just.

Next thing you know, they will patent the oxygen you and me breath and you wont be able to take a sweet breathe without paying a licensing fee!

My Greek ancestors invented the numbering system in 2000BC....are they coming back from the grave claiming credit for all these numbers and issuing the rights to them????

this is BS. Wayne, be a man and stand up to these bullies.

[rvanderpyl]

You don't Patent a number, you register a trademark or a copyright. After all it's called a 911 because Peugot had registered all the three digit numbers with 0 in the middle.

It may or may not be 'reasonable' but if you don't protect your copyrights and trademarks you lose them. Then GM could produce a car and call it the 911. See aspirin, fridge, xerox etall


Robert

[cabman]

I am a lawyer representing the pelican bird.

Were are suing you on behave that you have used the word "pelican" in all names and marketing materials for www.pelicanparts.com

you must surrender domain name, usage of all names associated with "pelican" or we will exercise our right to the judicial system.

(you see how ridiculous this all becomes?)

[beepbeep]

Ohh...they are only scaring you. You cannot register number as a brand ... that's why Intel changed their processor names from 486 to Pentium and not 586.

Trust me, i work with brand managment.

I understand you are a bit scared...but they cannot do a s$$$ if you decide not to do as they say.

[Z-man]

Seems like this has happened before:
The magazine, "Excellence" originally had a name with "Porsche" in it (Something like Porsche World...I forget). PCNA sued (or threatened to sue), and they changed their name to Excellence.

Also: Peugot sued Porsche for using 901, since Peugot copyrighted all three digit car names that have a '0' in the middle. Hence the Porsche 901 had to be renamed to 911. (Trivia: some early 911's have 901 part numbers! That's why.)

This kinda stuff happens all the time in car companies: When we (Mercedes Benz) came out with our US-market SUV, the ML320, it was supposed to be originally called the M320. BMW said we cannot, since they have copyrighted the letter 'M'. So we went with ML.

While I love my @944fanatic.com eddress, when a company like Porsche puts up the BIG guns, there's nothing that can really be done. It seems senseless, but they are protecting their name, reputation, image...etc. Also: while Pelican offers many OEM Porsche products, they also offer aftermarket / non-Porsche items, which is a conflict of interest for PCNA and Porsche AG. So while Pelican is a great company, it is not controlled by Porsche AG, therefore Porsche has to do this.

I am working on copyrighting the letter 'Z' That way, no one can use it without written permission. (Not too many people use 'Z' anyway!)

Just my $0.42.
-Zoltan.
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PCA NNJR
My Toy:



[This message has been edited by Z-man (edited 11-08-2001).]

[orbmedia]

I agree with your position Wayne. Fundamentally it's wrong for them to go after you but it's just not worth the energy to fight it.

In my view PCNA is the loser here, in my mind they have sunk a few notches. We should all write letters to PCNA expressing our disgust with their policies of going after fan sites and other silly inconsequential website names. Anyone on board? If so I'll research the address and contact at PCNA to send to and even make a form letter.

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Visit the Virtual
PORSCHE Rennsport Reunion Tour

[chrisp]

I have experiences relating to this sort of thing as well. They cannot register a number. They could register Porsche 911 but not just 911.

If it takes you a bunch of time to do this re-org of the email system than maybe you should just politely ask PCNA for the reg documents on those numbers. They should be able to provide them. Also, whenever they use 911, etc (if they are registered or tm) they need to have the little "R" or "TM" symbols next to them. I don't recall seeing this. Also at the back of their catalog it would say...."porsche", "boxster", "variocam", "tiptronic", "911" are all registered trademarks of Porsche, Ing, blah, blah, blah. If the number 911 does not show up and 928, 968,944, etc. have not been stated as registered on earlier catalogs then they are not. That's an easy way to tell.

[Early_S_Man]

I don't suppose Porsche even had a legal department when the Peugot, with the full backing of the vindictive French government, raised their objections about the 901 model designation! It was lame back then, and I find it curious that even in their world championship days of rallying, they have never offered a 901 model! It seems clear that after almost 40 years ... it was only a 'blocking/harassment' move by the French, and maybe the Porsche AG legal dept. could make a good case for willfull and intentional interference by the French govt. and Peugot with Porsche's marketing plans ... with no intention of ever using the 901 model designation themselves!

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[Pillow]

Sounds like PCNA is in bed with VWOA... VW has been on a witch hunt on its licensing for the past few years. VW has killed many websites and repo products because of this.

I am sure all the large automanufactures do the same schniz to good natured people and brand supporters.

... De-badging my 911 keeps sounding better and better. I want people to pay me for my advertizing I am cool enough, right guys?



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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

[Rot 911]

Yes you can trademark or copyright just a number, such as Peugot did with all three digit car designation numbers using 0 as the middle digit. For a good example of a manufacturer hunting down all violators of their trademarks just check out what Harley Davidson has done. They have even gone so far as to trademark the sound of their V-Twins. What Porsche has done sucks, but Wayne is wise to step away from this fight.



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Kurt V
'86 Coupe, '72 MGB, '58 Sprite
Jefferson City, Missouri

[andyu911]

I think PCNA should spend more time and $ to work on how to beat the V8 M3 rather than pay those $-sucking lawyers to do silly things. We want better cars not lawsuit.
Andy

[nostatic]

Intellectual property law is a rather large quagmire, and encompasses patent, trademark, and copyright. In this case, PCNA is attempting to protect their trademark on Porsche 911. While you can't necessarily obtain a mark on a number per se, you can in conjunction with other marks (ie Porsche).

The criteria for mark infringement is "does the use in question cause customer confusion?" For instance, Disney Plumbing is OK, as there is little chance that a typical consumer would call them thinking they were talking to the magic kingdom (although perhaps Disney is a bad exammple, as they have one of the most aggressive legal teams in the world). Disney Carnival would *not* be OK, as consumers could get confused.

In this case, the question is whether someone would to go "911fanatic" and expect it do be affilitated with PCNA. You could argue either way. PCNA is well within their rights to try and shut this down, but I don't think it is a slam dunk. There are plenty of sights that are in this gray area, and most just have a disclaimer. The real question concerns the decision making process at PCNA...as they must be trying to balance IP protection with PR. Looks like PR lost here.

[Wayne 962]

Ok, folks. One indeed has to chose his battles wisely. I do not want anyone writing letters to PCNA. That will not do anything but make them think that I am starting a riot against them. The only reason that I posted this on the board, is because it affects a bunch of people here.

Let's put it this way. If you like this site, and don't want to see it shut down by lawyers, then complain on this BBS only - it's not necessary to do my business for me. I have a stack of these letters from Porsche already, and I know how to handle them.

Here is the mark listing for those who were curious:

911 Status: Published for Opposition
Primary Class: 12 - Vehicles for locomotion by land, air or water
Classes: 12 - Vehicles for locomotion by land, air or water
Goods & Services: AUTOMOBILES AND THEIR STRUCTURAL PARTS
Serial No: 75917912
Reg. No: 2414167

Filed: February 14, 2000
First Use: 1964
First Commerce: 1965
Registration December 19, 2000

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Owner at Publication
Name: Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG
Address: Porscheplatz 1
70435 Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen
Entity Type: Corporation

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Original Applicant
Name: Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG
Address: Porscheplatz 1
70435 Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen
Entity Type: Corporation

[ USPTO data through: 4-Sep-2001 ]


-Wayne