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Location: Brisbane, Australia.
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3.0 EFI Aem Infinity Tuning Advice

Engine was a 100% stock 3.0 (8.5:1 pistons, stock SC cam, stock heat exchangers and muffler) but using a Rasant kit with AEM ecu and some 42mm throttle bodies.
Car was tuned and ran great, (195 hp at the wheels) but now I got the bug a bit...

After getting some help from William Knight (AWESOME GUY!) I decided to make the most of my ITBS and fit a full exhaust system 1&5/8 European Headers, M&K Sport muffer, and have also fitted CP 10.2 pistons and a pair of 464/465 Webcams.

Car is at the tuner, but at this point, they are getting 20kw LESS and it flattens out at 5500...
Ignition timing is correct.
They are using the TPS to tune.
Aiming for afr of 12 to 12.5...

What could be up? Is tuning a cam with overlap that much more difficult than a stock cam?

Last edited by mikedsilva; 10-23-2018 at 01:59 PM..
Old 10-22-2018, 09:48 PM
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Not enough fuel?
Old 10-23-2018, 01:02 AM
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yes more difficult. Also with more fun cams matching other components will be more important. The wrong header, or wrong length inlet trumpets may not make much difference with a soft cam
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:02 AM
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What size throttles? Is linkage correct? Are you getting WOT?
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Old 10-23-2018, 05:53 AM
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Michael,
your previous dyno run, with this setup on your stock engine/cams....I.E. prior to these latest changes, you had very good results......229 HP and 212 TQ...I don't remember the stock torque figures, but the HP was 17% over stock 3.0 Carrera. What happened since is the question. I would definitely check the obvious stuff.... ITBs air-flow balanced and, as Janie asks, the linkage correct and able to achieve full throttle? I'd also check the fuel pressure, cam timing and do a leak down test to ensure all is good inside. The 464/465 cams are basically Mod-S cams and should not be flattening out at 5500.

Did you datalog while you were on the dyno? If so, please feel free to email me a copy and I'll review it for you.


regards,
al
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Last edited by al lkosmal; 10-23-2018 at 08:45 AM..
Old 10-23-2018, 08:42 AM
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try swapping or removing the muffler and/or running without air cleaners. We were seeing some high end restriction in rain hat style air cleaners (not sure what you have) and the M&Ks are known to have strange resonance issues in certain motors at certain RPMs. Easy to eliminate both as a problem once the basics have been checked. With the big cams and compression, you might be plumb out of air. Can you post up a dyno plot with the AFRs?
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:00 AM
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Sounds like you ran out of injector.

Is it running lean?

If AFR's are good, sounds like the cams' timing are way too advanced. Is it making a lot more torque than before on the low end falling off on the high end?
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:03 AM
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Are you sure it’s CP 10.2? If memory serves they make a 9.5 and 10.5 for 3.0’s.
Small port or large port? Any head work done? Personally I think your running to large PC’s on single plug. Leaving you with less HP and hotter running.
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:30 AM
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hi, the tuner says that we are not getting any detonation with all the timing he is adding and it is not responding to it. He thinks that either I have bee given lower compression pistons or my cam timing is off.

Do these pistons look like 10.2? Or did CP cut too much off them?
Old 10-23-2018, 11:31 AM
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If it's not that, then perhaps I got my cam timing wrong.
Old 10-23-2018, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Sounds like you ran out of injector.

Is it running lean?

If AFR's are good, sounds like the cams' timing are way too advanced. Is it making a lot more torque than before on the low end falling off on the high end?
hi, it's producing less everywhere....

Old 10-23-2018, 11:38 AM
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Did a search and found this thread:
10.5 without twin plugging.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:15 PM
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My comments:

1. The dyno curves do not look like linkage issues preventing WOT. Often the low rpm performance will be the same and limit as you increase intake air flow rate due to rising rpm.
2. Those domes do not look high enough for 10.5:1. Did you CC the heads and piston dome and measure the CR?
3. Cam timing could certainly play a role here.
4. What ignition system are you running with your EFI? Is your ignition working properly? Firing on all 6 in correct timing order? You are down almost 50% power at low rpm. Check the firing order and make sure it is correct.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:22 PM
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Check plug gaps as well. Does it sound like its breaking up on top, or smooth? Are you running on the same dyno or different? Have you driven the car since the latest tuning to see how it feels?
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:52 PM
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That curve is shooting up at the top end. Its like the cam timing is way off. Look at it. The curve is climbing at 6500rpm like it is not even near peak power.

Did you fit the cams or did a professional-wrench do it? Did they document the cam settings?
what cylinders does your motor have? Are we sure rings are seated and cylinders aren't alusil?

Did you say you pulled 229hp at the wheels on a factory 3.0? That's a fair bit higher than anyone else I've heard of. I wonder what you pulled out and replaced with these new items?!
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Old 10-23-2018, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnovak View Post
My comments:

1. The dyno curves do not look like linkage issues preventing WOT. Often the low rpm performance will be the same and limit as you increase intake air flow rate due to rising rpm.
2. Those domes do not look high enough for 10.5:1. Did you CC the heads and piston dome and measure the CR?
3. Cam timing could certainly play a role here.
4. What ignition system are you running with your EFI? Is your ignition working properly? Firing on all 6 in correct timing order? You are down almost 50% power at low rpm. Check the firing order and make sure it is correct.
Hi, the pistons were modded down to 10.2 by CP.. as only running single plug. We do have pretty high quality fuel here in Aus and I only run 98. I contemplated running 10.5, but William suggested 10.2 to be safe. I did not cc the heads.
I am using the Rasant products system for the efi, with the aem infinity ecu. Apparently, yes, all cylinders are firing, but will check firing order again. Pretty hard to get that wrong, as the leads from the harness, are perfect length for each cylinder.
Old 10-23-2018, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Borden View Post
Check plug gaps as well. Does it sound like its breaking up on top, or smooth? Are you running on the same dyno or different? Have you driven the car since the latest tuning to see how it feels?
Plugs are same as when it had stock pistons, cams and exhaust.
Running on same dyno with same operator.
But no, I have not driven it as it is still at the shop.
Old 10-23-2018, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampadori View Post
That curve is shooting up at the top end. Its like the cam timing is way off. Look at it. The curve is climbing at 6500rpm like it is not even near peak power.

Did you fit the cams or did a professional-wrench do it? Did they document the cam settings?
what cylinders does your motor have? Are we sure rings are seated and cylinders aren't alusil?

Did you say you pulled 229hp at the wheels on a factory 3.0? That's a fair bit higher than anyone else I've heard of. I wonder what you pulled out and replaced with these new items?!
I did the cams.. I built the motor the first time, and it pulled 195 hp at the wheels.. not sure where the 229 came from, might have been scaled up for a flywheel reading?
Running stock nikasil cylinders.. 100% nikasil.
It was running stock 8.5 mahle pistons, stock SC cams, and stock factory heat exchangers.
Old 10-23-2018, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampadori View Post
That curve is shooting up at the top end. Its like the cam timing is way off. Look at it. The curve is climbing at 6500rpm like it is not even near peak power.
I am kinda hoping it is my cam timing that is the result of this poor performance. Does anyone else think that the graph suggests cam timing wrong?

I'm new at this, but could have made a mistake.. I thought if it was wrong, that I would have pistons hitting valves..

During assembly, I also checked valve to piston clearance using the method in Waynes book, where you get rid of your valve clearance, and then wind in the screw till you get a resistance of the valve touching the piston, at different engine positions.. I did get fairly consistent readings from both sides, suggesting I had sufficient and equal clearance. If my cam timing was out, wouldn't this reading have been way off?
Old 10-23-2018, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al lkosmal View Post
The 464/465 cams are basically Mod-S cams and should not be flattening out at 5500.

regards,
al
Are mod-S cams regarded as being difficult to tune with throttle bodies?
Old 10-23-2018, 02:02 PM
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