Fuel Enrichment for 930

[usafa]

I have a moderately modified '88 930 and I am hearing that fuel enrichment may be a good addition to prolong engine life by avoiding overlean conditions under boost. After searching forums here and at the OTHER popular site, I have found little info. I understand Andial makes a device as well as Lee Rice?

Don't misunderstand me, I would NEVER explore the full potential of my little monster (aka Die Ober) and risk breaking a piston or ring! Suddup!....Don't talk to me! I'm not listening...What are you? a Wimp?...No, I just don't want to break my car...wimp!

Sorry, still trying to keep my alter ego in check!

Anyway, anyone out there with some wisdom regarding pros and cons of fuel enrichment, what type is recommended and where can the systems be purchased?

My mods include: K27-7006, 1 bar, B&B turbo headers, triflow muffler (single outlet), wastegate pipe, 964 cams, heads and intake manifold mildly ported, raceware head hardware, powerflow w/K&N cone filter, Sachs lightweight clutch

[tsuter]

I added my own supplemental fuel enrichment aka a Callaway Microfueler setup. It is located on the turbo outlet pipe just before the throttle body. I added a pressure switch and a cold start valve. The pressure switch is adjusted with a screw to close when the boost really comes on (for me at about 4000RPM under load). This opens the cold start valve and injects fuel directly to the boosted air before the throttle body. The cold start valve injector cuts off when the pressure switch opens on a drop in boost below its setting. At lower boost and load it does not activate.

It effectively lowers detonation due to lean conditions, allows me to run higher boost and adds 25-35 HP as compared to the non enriched set up.

This supplemental enrichment is for mechanical K Jetronic CIS and I do not have an o-sensor closed loop.

[dean]

One thing you could do is get a dyno test and see what your A/F ratio is, and see if you need more fuel.

[usafa]

tsuter, sounds like a neat system. Is your car intercooled? And is your system considered a "7th" injector system? Sorry, I'm not very familiar with the available fuel enrichment devices and how they work exactly.

Blown, I've been considering a dyno just for this reason. Will the shop doing the dyno typically record A/F along with HP and TQ, or would I need to specifically request?

If I'm concerned with prior damage due to possible lean conditions would this also be a good time to have a leak-down test performed? I guess that would be personal preference.

[hobieboy]

I'm adding the Andial kit to my car as we speak as a safety backup.

I was running with stock boost last year, but since I use the car mainly on the track & plan to dial it up this year, I think this at least gives me some "cheap" safety margin/backup.

Of course, the right thing to do is twin plug & get higher octane gas...

[usafa]

Patrick,

How does the Andial kit work? Does it control the existing fuel pressure regulator (WUR), or does it operate as a separate unit that supplies more fuel on demand? Also, do you believe a DIY can install given the correct tools/gauges and direction, ect? I don't have a CO meter. I'm guessing that a trip to the dyno would be in order to correctly set the enrichment device?

Oh, do you have a few LARGE to donate toward my twin plug and Piston/crank upgrade project? You could call it a Research Grant and write it off! Just a thought.

[hobieboy]

The kit will essentially start enriching when the boost reachs 0.6 bar. It does so by tricking the CIS metering system as if the fuel pressure is lower. There's a potentiometer to allow for fine tuning (amount to enrich) or to shut it off.

And yes, a dyno session is definitely a good idea & probably essential for the initial set up.

Now, if the tax write off is 200% of donation, then I can certainly find a few LARGE somewhere

[usafa]

tsutur, Blown, and Patrick, thanks for the info. I will put it to good use in the near future along with some additional research.

Hey, who carries the various enrichment kits? I've searched Pelican, Andial, and a few other online sites and can't find them. Andial has a writeup but no prices.

[dean]

The dyno place should include a graph with your fuel ratio along with the Hp and torque chart. Ask them if they do. There is a guy who does enrichment devices. I think his name is Lee Rice.


This site has some dyno runs.
http://www.c2turbo.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=34

This site has the info on the Rice enrichment
http://www.911turbo.com/index.php

[dean]

Oh yea
Do a comp. test if you think you have damage. Then if your comp is bad do the leakdown

[usafa]

Blown,

Thanks for the information! I'm learning a little more about the various devices available. I probably need to pick up a book about the CIS system as well.

Thanks again

[BlkBird]

Did you end up getting an Andial system?

I am running into a similar problem - the car is set to run REALLY rich in order to avoid the evil detonation problem (bad detonation, bad!) but as a result the car balks and bucks when it is cold.

In fact sometimes it balks when it is at full operating temperature if I stop for a short period. Say getting gas.

And speaking of gas - my mileage is aweful! Used to get 250 miles to a tank. Even got 350 miles on a long cruise. Now I am lucky to see 200 miles before she needs a refill.

My local head wrench recommends the Andial. Supposed to arrive this week, possibly installed on Friday. But I am wondering how yours worked (if you got one).

[john walker's workshop]

like blown says, put it on a dyno. you will see on the graph a/f ratio thru the rpm range, hp, and torque. many cars are just fine as is.

[obrut]

i'm with jw and blown

i bought a Kremer 930 about 6 months ago and went straight out and had a dyno run done showing a/f - showed no need for additional fuel enrichment

the donk (good aussie word) makes 370 hp at the flywheel - i've heard the cis can flow up to 420/430 hp without drama

cheers - ryan

[usafa]

BlkBird,

I haven't gone with any fuel enrichment system yet. I haven't even gotten to dyno it yet. (Time to get the world's smallest violin out!)

I've currently got my induction system (IC, fuel distributer & Air meter, BOV, and intake manifold) off for repairs. The PO had a "divider" plate fabricated and installed in the manifold at the throttle body opening. This was supposed to divert the airflow more evenly and/or increase air speed to the intake ports? In any case, the thing was connected by drilling two holes in the manifold and bolted from the bottom. Long story short, one bolt backed out completely and disappeared and the other one just came loose and the plate fluttered around until it finally came completely loose and was floating around in my intake manifold. Thank god the thing was too big to slip into an intake port!

I've decided to replace the divider plate since I cannot really repair the holes drilled in the cast magnesium manifold...at least not with any real confidence that anything I use to fill them will not come loose and get sucked/blown right into one of the intake ports. The old divider plate was fabbed from a 3/16" thick piece of aluminum, so the bolts used were limited in size and it had no support. I'm having one machined with a wider base (about 1/2") and necked down to about 1/8" at the top edge. Hopefully with the larger dia (and longer) bolts that will allow, with the wide base for support and plenty of loctite (red) the damned thing will not come loose again. The biggest problem is knowing if it does come loose. You cannot really tell without looking down the throttle body.

So, after collecting the required technical documentation (if you thought I've ever done this before.....) and after I finish collecting all the required new parts (seals, gaskets, injector blocks, silicone vacuum hose, ect.) I will put it all back together. The real trick will be getting it started after I'm done! And hopefully I wouldn't have blocked too much airflow!

If the car survives, then I will continue with my quest to verify a/f mixtures at speed and go from there.

[Amac]

I have felt the pain of CIS.
As you add mods controlling the fuel
system get harder. I can't tell you how
much money I spent on fuel control tricks
for CIS. It was never ending, add this, adjust
that, lets try this.
So I pulled the whole F***ing CIS and intake.
Put in Motec, Carrera intake, new injectors.
Now I can program anything from mild street
to full kill.
It is costly, but all the nagging cold start, fuel enrich.,
idleing problems go away. Plus you car will run like a
"burning bat out of hell".
Try Performance Racing in Tulsa OK. they make the parts
you need for CIS.

[usafa]

Amac,

I hope to eventually do what you just described. For now, I will have to live with the CIS system. Thanks for the input.

[BlkBird]

Usafa,

With your divider plate I have but one word for you. Loctite. You can choose the colour you want (blue means the bolt will come out if you swear on the end of your wrench, red means the bolt has found a new permanent home).

I don't know about the plate rattling around in the intake manifold. I would be more concerned about them ity-bity bolts getting sucked into my cylinders.

BTW, Andial system is being installed even as we speak. Then they test and dyno it, and we see what happens tomorrow. In fact, tomorrow Miss UPS (I hope) is delivering four beautiful 17" RUF Speedline rims complete with tires.

Maybe have to take a sick day from work? I feel bad boss, real bad. Only one thing I know can save me. B. O. O. S. T.

[WERK I]

If you're still looking for an Andial Fuel Enrichment kit, contact ImagineAuto(imagineauto.com). Stephen Kaspar has extensive knowledge on the kit, plus he is the national PCA tech advisor. I purchased mine from them, not affiliatedwith them, no vested interest, blah, blah, etc......

Dave
85 Factory Slant Turbo

[usafa]

BlkBird,

I hear you! I feel like I'm moving in ssssllllloooooowwwww motion without my ride. If you saw my recent post, I finally got the thing back together, but then promptly flooded it and fouled the plugs. Will be pulling all plugs, cleaning them (since they are only a few months old), pushing all extra fuel out of the cylinders and trying it again this weekend. As recommended, I'll be changing the oil as well.

I did have another divider plate machined. I took some pictures, but don't have them with me right now. Will post later tonight. I had the new plate machined from a 1/2" thick aluminum plate. The base where the bolt holes are drilled and tapped (1/4" NC) is 1/2" thick. The plate necks down to about 3/16" thick at the top edge just under the throttle body. The thicker base should help support the plate better, and I used Red threadlocker as well as lock washers on the new bolts. If a bolt comes loose, it will fall outside the manifold. I really don't know if this divider plate adds any HP by directing the air flow, but it was either that or find another manifold.

Good luck with your new Andial sytem.

Boost Em While Ya Got Em