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CIS Specialist/Guru

Hope Everyone enjoyed their TG!

I need a mechanic that specializes in CIS for my 1980 911 SC. I'm in NJ and will travel up to 100 miles. Long story short, I keep picking up my car from the shop with the same problems that I brought the car in with and keep getting hefty bills and more excuses! Not going to trash my mechanic....but I need my car to run right!

Old 11-26-2018, 03:51 PM
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CIS troubleshooting.........

Where in NJ are you located? Do you like to work on your car? What problem/s are you having with your car? Keep us posted. Thanks.

Tony
Old 11-26-2018, 03:58 PM
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Northern Jersey. I rather not work on the car due to the lack of a garage, skill and time. The RPM's are hunting erratically from 1000 to 2500 and then shuts off. I have to try to turn her over a couple of time and to keep the car running, I have to give it gas and keep her idle around 2000 for about 10 minutes then it settles down. It's happening when the weather is 20 and 50 degrees. Runs great when the car is warm, but when it sits for more than an hour, the symptoms repeat. The mechanic has changed 95% of the system......
Old 11-26-2018, 04:31 PM
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CIS components........

Do you remember what CIS components have been replaced by your mechanic/s? You probably spent a lot already for their time looking for something they did not know. Wish you are closer. A fellow PP member just called me a few days ago with exactly similar situation like yours. He was able to get the car back home from the shop and will do a house call (FREE) next week to evaluate the problem. The guy lives 20 miles away from me. Wished you are a bit closer.

Remember that not all good mechanics are familiar or well versed with this old and antiquated fuel injection system. Most of the experienced CIS technicians are old and retired by now but some are still hanging around. Keep looking.

Tony
Old 11-26-2018, 05:18 PM
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bozjc, you can borrow my gauges and maybe Tony can give you a hand remote? I'll be near Bernsardsville in the morning and Peapack rest of day tomorrow (Tuesday).

Tony D.
Old 11-26-2018, 05:43 PM
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WUR spec.

bozjc,

When you get a chance could you post the Bosch ID number on your WUR (0 438 140 xxx). The last 3 digits identify the WUR. And if you could measure the heater resistance (Ohms) of the WUR (cold engine) is much appreciated. Thanks.

Tony

Last edited by boyt911sc; 11-26-2018 at 06:00 PM..
Old 11-26-2018, 05:57 PM
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Tony D and Tony,

Your help is much appreciated! I'm tempted to buys a gauge and try giving it a shot. Here are the new parts that were replaced in addition to splitting the case.

Fuel Accumulator
Fuel Distributor Cap Iginition
Fuel Distributor head
Warm up regulator
Vacuum advance unit
Fuel Pump
Cold Start Valve

I will post the number of the WUR ASAP
Old 11-27-2018, 09:36 AM
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Thatís what I thought.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by bozjc View Post
Tony D and Tony,

Your help is much appreciated! I'm tempted to buys a gauge and try giving it a shot. Here are the new parts that were replaced in addition to splitting the case.

Fuel Accumulator
Fuel Distributor Cap Iginition
Fuel Distributor head
Warm up regulator
Vacuum advance unit
Fuel Pump
Cold Start Valve

I will post the number of the WUR ASAP


A typical CIS troubleshooter who does not fully understand how the system works usually try to replace one part after part hoping to fix the problem. Sometimes you get lucky and fix the problem. This is a very expensive way to troubleshoot your problem/s. The FA, FD, WUR, FP, and CSV could be bench tested by a decent DIYer using ordinary mechanic home tools. I am surprise that the mechanic did not replace the fuel injectors which could be tested too.

Iíve been searching and looking for CIS problems for many years now that a typical DIYer like you or me could not diagnose correctly. And Iím still looking. What symptoms or problems are you now experiencing? Unless you share with us the symptoms of your problems, we have no way of knowing what to tell you to do. Keep us posted. Thanks.

Tony D.
Old 11-27-2018, 12:26 PM
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Hi. Is everything outside if the CIS spot on? Fresh plugs, points, dwell angle, timing? Make sure these are at spec. 90% of the time this is the problem.

Are all of the CIS parts correct for you car? All the parts are model/displacement specific.

If all of the above is ok, get your mixture checked with a CO machine. Any decent shop will have s sniffer. Adjust the mixture to the setting for your car (it is on the fan strap). Surging is sometimes s lean mixture.

CIS is not unique to Porsche. From Wikipedia, “ K-Jetronic debuted in the 1973.5 Porsche 911T in January 1973, and was later installed into a number of Porsche, Volkswagen, Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Lotus, Ferrari, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault, Volvo, Saab, DeLorean, TVR and Ford automobiles. The final car to use K-Jetronic was the 1994 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.6.”

Someone in your area will know the system.
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:01 PM
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We had a customer who spent $24k to have their SC engine rebuilt by another shop. It didn’t run correctly after the rebuild so he brought it to us. We had Tony rebuild the WUR & FD. Engine worked perfectly with the rebuilt parts from Tony. He’s the CIS guy.
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:47 PM
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@MEPSTEIN I'm also that guy who had the engine rebuilt $$$$$$ and the car still runs like $#@&!
I am going to share all this helpful information with the shop. They asked me to bring the car back, so they can they can try and solve the issues or maybe throw more new parts at it!
Old 11-28-2018, 07:12 AM
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Cis

My 74 had sat unused for 18 years.

So the proper path to correcting the damage caused by sitting was flushing the fuel tank. Once it was empty it was pulled, taken to a radiator shop for cleaning.

The CIS system is sensitive and the parts all need to be cleaned and within functional spec. I recommend pulling your fuel distributor and sending it off to Larry at CIS Flowtech in Alabama. If you send in your Warm up regulator, he will match them accordingly.

Also, change your fuel filter to catch any crap in the lines running through the body. When you complete that, you will also want to pull your injectors and take them to a diesel truck shop and pay to have them ultrasonically cleaned.

Beyond that have you checked your air box for possible cracks? And have you installed a pop-off valve?

These are things that I completed on mine to get my 2.7L running, which we found had pulled head studs, and it was exchanged for a fresh built 3.0L! Cheers.
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozjc View Post
@MEPSTEIN I'm also that guy who had the engine rebuilt $$$$$$ and the car still runs like $#@&!
I am going to share all this helpful information with the shop. They asked me to bring the car back, so they can they can try and solve the issues or maybe throw more new parts at it!
Don't do it. Given the parts that they have already replaced, they are taking stabs in the dark, as Tony has commented. Car runs fine after warm-up so they replace the fuel pump? A new WUR? - I didn't know that they exist ... maybe a re-built or used one off E-Bay ...



You mentioned that you don't want to work on it yourself ... fwiw it took me 32 years of ownership to finally get involved with my '79SC; after a top end engine rebuild by a shop last year, I was having CIS issues as well. I bought a FP gauge this summer, went at it with the help of many enthusiasts via this forum, learned a great deal, saved oodles of $, and now have a nicely working CIS.

Look at the WUR for the number and report back to Tony (and us); they are specific to the year blt/whether US or ROW. They may have replaced with the wrong WUR. I have a re-calibrated WUR in my car as performed by Tony which solved my RPM issues (different issues than yours - thanks again, Tony!), but only after troubleshooting to identify the culprit.

Good luck

Jason
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Old 11-28-2018, 08:00 AM
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Learn from your mistakes........

Quote:
Originally Posted by bozjc View Post
@MEPSTEIN I'm also that guy who had the engine rebuilt $$$$$$ and the car still runs like $#@&!
I am going to share all this helpful information with the shop. They asked me to bring the car back, so they can they can try and solve the issues or maybe throw more new parts at it!

bozjc,

Next time you visit your favorite mechanic/s ask them innocently why all these (FD, FP, CSV, WUR, FA, etc.) were replaced in the first place. What tests were made to verify and confirm they were defective or bad. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they are knowledgeable in K-Jetronic system and familiar how these components work. And finally be able to test and verify that a certain CIS component is good or bad. Are you willing to buy another fuel distributor or a warm up regulator?

And where did they get those replacement parts? Are you certain that they were really replaced with newly refurbished parts? Did they test the integrity of your vacuum system? Did they monitor the control pressure profile versus time?

Lastly, not all good and honest mechanics are familiar with CIS. You wonít be here sharing your problem with us if they did their job well. Wish you the best.

Tony
Old 11-28-2018, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozjc View Post
Northern Jersey. I rather not work on the car due to the lack of a garage, skill and time. The RPM's are hunting erratically from 1000 to 2500 and then shuts off. I have to try to turn her over a couple of time and to keep the car running, I have to give it gas and keep her idle around 2000 for about 10 minutes then it settles down. It's happening when the weather is 20 and 50 degrees. Runs great when the car is warm, but when it sits for more than an hour, the symptoms repeat. The mechanic has changed 95% of the system......
Sounds like it's running rich.

Check the CCP on the WUR.
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:06 AM
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for all of you having trouble with the K jetronic i would recommend this guide book........i would make a copy but it has 72 pages of troubleshooting procedures...

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Old 11-28-2018, 11:44 AM
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Here is another very good source, and I have used it for my 83 911SC and 87 944S fuel injection systems.

Sold right here on Pelican Parts. Best $32.00 I have ever spent!

https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/0802/POR_0802_TOLBKS_pg3.htm#item6

Good luck with your diagnosis.
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:54 AM
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A new tank was installed, fuel lines were blown clean, new injectors, new fuel filter and pop off valve installed. Also, WUR fuel distributor were rebuilt. The PO told me the car sat for over ten years in a field.
Old 11-28-2018, 02:59 PM
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Thanks to M&K Exhaust/RarlyL8 Motorsports since they have taken over the responsibility for maintaining Jim's Basement Workshop a great source for our CIS cars. They have an electronic copy of the Troubleshooting Guide K-Jetronic that proporsche references.

CIS Primer for the 911

Troubleshooting Guide K-Jetronic
Old 11-28-2018, 05:05 PM
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This post has the instructions for measuring your FP's

Happy troubleshooting.

CIS Troubleshooting for Dummies

The 80 FP chart is the second one here.

CIS Troubleshooting for Dummies

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Old 11-28-2018, 07:21 PM
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