Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,151
Ode to the 930 4 speed

Always thought it was cool that the 930 had 4 speed gear boxes vs the regular 5 speed gear boxes in other porsches.

I remember the first time I saw a 930 at the porsche dealership.. early 90s how completely odd and cool to see the shifter with just 4 ratios!

To me this has become a CENTRAL PART of the 930 experience beside of course the LAG.

Looking down and seeing that classic 4 speed which can only mean this is a 930 turbo!

Anyhow a lot of flak over the years for this transmission by those who most likely never experienced driving a 930..

I can say that the 4 speed is FASTER on brute acceleration 0-60 and 0-100 than a 5 speed. Iím not of the opinion shifting the 5 speed faster than the 4 speed is possible.. At least not without destroying the 5 speeds synchronized mechanisms.

Looking back 40 years later it makes perfect sense why porsche choose the 4 speed for the 930.

It was the STRONGEST transmission porsche had at the time. Capable of handling 700 + hp.

Today it makes it that much cooler being a 4 speed over the 5 speed found in everything else.

That and the 930 4 transmission was also FIA homologated which is super cool!






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Old 12-23-2018, 05:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
4 speed transmissions were available much earlier than that. My '67 normal came with a 901 4 speed. I've replaced it with a dog leg 5 speed though. I still have the original if you want it. 50K miles, shifts great and the synchros are excellent. I'll never put it back into my car and I'll sell it cheap!
Old 12-23-2018, 09:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South East England
Posts: 980
^ Does the ‘67 do 92 mph in second gear though?
__________________
www.classicretrofit.com
Old 12-23-2018, 09:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
Uh....no. had it up to 95 in third though. A certain CHP officer can attest. :-)
Old 12-23-2018, 09:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
911tracker85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Park Hills, KY
Posts: 1,709
several years ago I picked up a 78 SC/930 conversion, not running project.

the guy built this car with a 3.3 turbo engine, and what turned out to be a mag case 915, 7:31 and 2-4 autocross gearing, with a TALL 5th. sold the gearbox to a friend and when he was rebuilding said the gears were very burned and surprised it had not blown up.

I'll be getting a proper 930 4sp, either a short BH or have one shortened. if I have to rebuild to shorten, may regear 2-3 a little tighter. we'll see.

all the engine stuff is about to ship to Steve Weiner for machine work. I'll have him do the gearbox too.
__________________
Bob Cox
84 928S, Ruby Red linen/brown interior - preferred DD
85 911 Targa, White Gold/brown int - sold
86 944 turbo my new DE/track car.
78 930 clone project car.
Old 12-24-2018, 04:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 547
The 930 four speed was so great...that Ruf designed a proper five speed.

I mean, what the hell? Next you'll be waxing philosophic on the lovely 3LDZ turbo unit...
Old 12-24-2018, 07:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
gearhead
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Loverland, CO
Posts: 15,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by 93097004xx View Post

I can say that the 4 speed is FASTER on brute acceleration 0-60 and 0-100 than a 5 speed. Iím not of the opinion shifting the 5 speed faster than the 4 speed is possible.. At least not without destroying the 5 speeds synchronized mechanisms.
Rubbish. Borg Warner synchros are so superior to Porsche's balk ring design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFYH4MntnVg

ps. The 901 was FIA homologated. The 915 was FIA homologated. The G50 was FIA homologated. Every car Porsche has ever raced got it's gearbox homologated. I do not think that word means what you think it means...
__________________
1974 911 Restorod
1974 914 Bumble Bee
1975 911S Tom's Targa
2008 Cayman S Mule
Old 12-24-2018, 08:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,151
Ode to the 930 4 speed

The 4 speed is faster for hardcore acceleration which is what a 930 is for..

Iím sorry but the tall gears just work better with the MASSIVE torque a 930 produces on boost..

I really dont think the gears on five speeds are correct for 930s or at least work well with the on and off power delivery..

Also none of you can ROW gears fast enough on a 5 speed to keep up with a 4 speed..

On boost the 4 speed is a rocket ship that you only shift once below 92 MPH..

I know on paper the 5 speed seems faster but in reality at least for acceleration itís not..

You canít shift 5 gears faster than 4...

That simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Old 12-24-2018, 08:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Work in Progress
 
Rich76_911s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ardmore, PA
Posts: 3,073
Garage
I gotta be honest I wish my 4 speed had 5 cogs. I like doing backroad twisty driving and I always feel like I'd love a gear between 2nd and 3rd. Someday I'd like to get shorter 2,3,4 gears. Might cause RPM's to be a tad too high cruising the highway, but I don't use the car for that too often.
__________________
"The reason most people give up is because they look at how far they have to go, not how far they have come." -Bruce Anderson via FB
-Marine Blue '87 930
Old 12-24-2018, 08:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 54
If you're not a purist throw some low profile tires on. Same result, mo cheapa
Old 12-24-2018, 09:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
jbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: highland mills NY
Posts: 574
I have the short bell housing tranny in my car 1st-65 2nd-100 3rd-about 130. never ran 4th to redline lol.
I have aEFI turbo motor and works very well with the 4sp.
I would trade it for a good 5 speed in a heart beat. I run my car up against pretty big HP cars
(vette Z06 ,etc ). Most guys running my car at the track Quarter mile are running faster times with proper 5 speeds. Dont get me wrong with big power it is nice to not shift as much. I really dont think you would be going backwoods in speed. I think the 5 speed would be an upgrade all the way..
John
__________________
83 sc cab turbo widebody. 3.5 liter supertec motor, B&B headers, EFI electromotive TecGT, TurboKraft GT35R billet turbo, 964 cams, WM inj, Bell full bay intercooler, Short bell housing turbo 4 speed tranny, roll bar, hargett shifter,
Old 12-24-2018, 09:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
gearhead
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Loverland, CO
Posts: 15,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by 93097004xx View Post
The 4 speed is faster for hardcore acceleration which is what a 930 is for..

Iím sorry but the tall gears just work better with the MASSIVE torque a 930 produces on boost..

I really dont think the gears on five speeds are correct for 930s or at least work well with the on and off power delivery..

Also none of you can ROW gears fast enough on a 5 speed to keep up with a 4 speed..

On boost the 4 speed is a rocket ship that you only shift once below 92 MPH..

I know on paper the 5 speed seems faster but in reality at least for acceleration itís not..

You canít shift 5 gears faster than 4...

That simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
You're not paying attention. Or maybe you don't know the car I posted. That's Eddie Bello. It's a 964 turbo. It had a G50-52 gearbox in it. That's a taller geared turbo 5spd gearbox. I don't know what generic 5spd you are arguing against. I am offering up a real gearbox from a real car that Porsche built and sold. Same ratios were in the G50-50 in 1989 if you want to keep it to G body 930s.

0-60, both your 930 and his 50-52 will require 1 shift. 0-100, both his 50-52 and your 930 will require 2 shifts. His does top out 2nd at 83 mph versus your 92mph. In a 0-100 contest it's totally inconsequential.

However, what will make a difference if you both line up at the drag strip is the synchro design. Even a monkey can shift a G50 faster than the balk ring synchros in a 930. Your comment that you can't shift 5 gears faster than 4 makes no sense in practical analysis. Why? Because it's the same number of shifts in both gearboxes. The number of gears in the box means nothing.
__________________
1974 911 Restorod
1974 914 Bumble Bee
1975 911S Tom's Targa
2008 Cayman S Mule
Old 12-24-2018, 10:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sunny buffalo
Posts: 515
I have owned a 1987 turbo cab for about 10 years, always thought it was a 930 with a G50 conversion. Turns out she was born as a narrow body with a Targa roof. Looks like, sounds like, runs like a 930 but without the proper vin. I cannot make a 4 speed comparison, but can say the G50 rocks. Pulls 140 mph in 4th gear at redline. I have not pushed 5th gear for ant more speed.
Old 12-24-2018, 10:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
safe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,483
Garage
The 930 box is cool and sturdy, but it was outdated when new. 4 gears was not a feature, it was a limitation.
I run a 4speed 915 in my 77. I like the tall second gear, but the step between the next is to long.
A G50 is sweet and heavy, but the weight is worth it.
Old 12-24-2018, 12:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 2,997
I had an 81 Turbo 4 spd then a 91 Turbo G50 5 spd, the 5sp transmission made it far easier to stay on the boost. RUF new this when he added a 5th to the box. Of course on the highway 3d and 4th were perfectly sufficient with all the torque.
__________________
1973 911S (since new) RS MFI specs
1991 C2 Turbo
Old 12-24-2018, 01:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Reiver
 
Reiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 26,820
I wish my 915 had 6 gears.
__________________
De Oppresso Liber
Old 12-24-2018, 02:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
gearhead
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Loverland, CO
Posts: 15,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiver View Post
I wish my 915 had 6 gears.
They really just need a usable 1st gear. 2.78 or 2.64 are just about right.
Old 12-24-2018, 03:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 47
There is little subjectivity when the data supports the facts. The OP made some strong statements based more on passion than fact. Matt's post support the facts.

I had a 76 turbo in 1978 with an RSR 915. Not many choices back then. The motor was around 360 hp. I had the opportunity to see results back to back. Hands down the 915 gets it done better than the 930. To be fair the 915 is far from a slick shifter but it is still less balky that the 930.

There are plenty of reasons to support taller gears and less shifting. For the turbo that tall gearing created some extra load and needed exhaust heat. Porsche had no choice but to increase gear width and center distance to handle the perceived loads the race cars were going to see. Even if they wanted to poke 5 speeds into the street turbo of the day I would think they did not want to shake up the chassis to package that large gearbox for such low volumes. Look what was needed for the G50 in the Carrera.

To also support the statement on the Borg synchro's, Porsche's design can not hold a candle to them. They had their place back when they replaced sliding gears but the B&W paper synchros in the G50 represent what continual improvement is all about.
Old 12-24-2018, 04:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
 
Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
Rawknees'Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: North TexASS
Posts: 11,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocker View Post
The 930 four speed was so great...that Ruf designed a proper five speed.

I mean, what the hell? Next you'll be waxing philosophic on the lovely 3LDZ turbo unit...
He does that each time he states that the factory turbo lag from that horrible turbocharger is good (character) and should not be changed for a unit that spools much earlier and does not run out of steam shortly after it hits.
Old 12-24-2018, 04:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: a town south of fresno
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
You're not paying attention. Or maybe you don't know the car I posted. That's Eddie Bello. It's a 964 turbo. It had a G50-52 gearbox in it. That's a taller geared turbo 5spd gearbox. I don't know what generic 5spd you are arguing against. I am offering up a real gearbox from a real car that Porsche built and sold. Same ratios were in the G50-50 in 1989 if you want to keep it to G body 930s.

0-60, both your 930 and his 50-52 will require 1 shift. 0-100, both his 50-52 and your 930 will require 2 shifts. His does top out 2nd at 83 mph versus your 92mph. In a 0-100 contest it's totally inconsequential.

However, what will make a difference if you both line up at the drag strip is the synchro design. Even a monkey can shift a G50 faster than the balk ring synchros in a 930. Your comment that you can't shift 5 gears faster than 4 makes no sense in practical analysis. Why? Because it's the same number of shifts in both gearboxes. The number of gears in the box means nothing.
consider the context, matt. pretty sure he's never seen 92 in second gear given how he treats his car.

nonsense...
__________________
1971 914-6 GT 3.6
1974 911
1976 911S leaf green backdate 3.2
Old 12-24-2018, 05:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:55 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.