Billet 3.6 block hits the market!

[Lukesportsman]

I don't have a lot of details, but witnessed it at PRI this weekend. Walking by a booth, I"m like am I really seeing a NEW 911 block? It sure was, and beautiful with ball milling and material lightening to have similar appearance to an OEM design. They aren't sure how many iterations they will make and whether they'll ever make a water cooled setup, but it was quite exciting to see this being made in the USA. It was cool to see technology and research still being thrown at these air cooled engines.

Cost, well I plan to build my next 997TT engine fully for the price of this block But it is being ran in a really fast 914 currently so there is A MARKET. Just one not including my budget.

[Lukesportsman]

https://noonanrace.com/products/911-porsche-case

He was very approachable and will say from the domestic market, quite respected.

[Coastr]

Yikes that is pricey. Different approach than to the other thread on here where they are trying to cast a new 3.6 case for a much lower price.

Still, for a racer that must be the go-to item to have for longevity.

[BURN-BROS]

That thing is stunning!

[AG81]

Luke, Thank you... I am seriously thinking I will build me a motor and sell my reworked 88 3.2 motor complete after the fact..... I so want the stack styled Fuel Injection for the shear looks of it.

[Tremelune]

Catorce is aiming to have a 3.6 block available for $5k:

So...Someone is manufacturing new 3.6 cases...

[sithot]

CNC billet is hard to beat due to accuracy and no chance of voids or impurities that can be found in castings.

[Kraftwerk]

Yes, but is this Noonan case 2x more material /complicated than their 4.8" BILLET HEMI ENGINE which is half price, or is this a "Porsche" upcharge? I know very little about this stuff, just curious.

[offroader1006]

I think they're starting off with a price that reflects their investment into tooling and R&D.

They are marketing towards race cars that are getting that much put into them after a few dozen hours, either way.

I'm not sure of their tooling setup, but if they can manufacture them in large numbers, they'll recover their initial costs and demand will lower enough to make a price drop.

If they only make a few here and there, don't expect the price to fall.

[Kraftwerk]

Make sense. Kinda great someone is making these, not in the market but wow, a monster engine could be made if you had the coin.
Price is not crazy considering...

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

Yes, but is this Noonan case 2x more material /complicated than their 4.8" BILLET HEMI ENGINE which is half price, or is this a "Porsche" upcharge? I know very little about this stuff, just curious.

Yea, I noticed that as well. Then I remembered the Porsche case has two parts.

Yea, when I win the lotto I am going to build a monster 911 motor.

[racing97]

Man I admire folks that do these very difficult projects, but I can't tell you the many times Porsche has all of a sudden released the very product that they have recreated. I sure hope this is not all for not.

[mb911]

Wow looks great.

[Lukesportsman]

It's always the Chevy vs the "blank" for price. It's price per unit to recover R&D and they certainly aren't going to be selling a thousand of these a year. They JUST started this venture and yes its EXPENSIVE. I tried to prepare myself when I asked MSRP and have built a few moderately expensive engines....still not sure I pulled off my poker face when he told me. It was incredible in quality and detailed beyond "need". They build serious engines and it seems they did this "right". Sadly, like Porsche building an RS, right is out of my immediate budget with 4 kiddos in college line.

I wanted to share this exciting news and certainly would like to see such a venture take off. But, I too will have to be satisfied with used blocks or possible a new casting at some time.

One further note, I did discuss the ideas of building a GT3 or water cooled Turbo off this block and he certainly said "maybe".

[Coastr]

I doubt the price would come down. It’s aimed at the racing market where they are rebuilding the engine often and the cost isn’t huge in comparison to going racing. Particularly if you can get 2x or 3x the life out of the billet block.

It’s great that the 911 will never die because so many companies are reproducing just about everthkng if you have the budget. From a carbon shell to a billet block and all the bits and pieces in between.

[manbridge 74]

Wonder what it weighs...

[VitoV]

Originally Posted by offroader1006

I think they're starting off with a price that reflects their investment into tooling and R&D. [...] If they only make a few here and there, don't expect the price to fall.

Originally Posted by lukesportsman

It's price per unit to recover R&D and they certainly aren't going to be selling a thousand of these a year.

Tooling and R&D are sunk costs, irrelevant for the cost of actually producing the next widget, or for the pricing of the widget.

[Catorce]

A little late to the party on this thread. Allow me to make a few comments about billet cases in general.

First, Billet is the sexiest case material ever. No one will ever beat the looks of it, not even mine.

Having said that, what makes it so sexy is that every single surface is machined beautifully, which results in the most ridiculous machining times you have ever seen. To start with a 150 pound block of billet aluminum and then have most of that metal wind up in the recycle bin is almost a crime.

The massive prices you are seeing are a direct result of long, long machining times. Very little fixturing required to do a billet case on a 5 axis machine, very little tooling and setup.

The billet guys will never, ever tell you this, but they can only make 1-2 of these per month, or else their machines are tied up for too long, and that's why they are 20K.

Another dirty secret: I know for a fact that the billet case manufacturers are ignoring the problem of line boring the case. They feel that their 5 axis machines are accurate enough that they simply trust the machine to carve out the main and layshaft bores. I have never seen or heard of any of them bolting the case halves together and actually boring the main and layshaft like you are supposed to. Why? Because its hard to do right!

Cast A356T6 is just as strong as any billet case in this application. There is no effective difference at these wall thicknesses and the guy that claims that there are voids in the casting is ignoring the hundreds upon hundreds of sand cast cases Porsche themselves made before they went to die casting. If the foundry knows what they are doing, there will be no voids.

My $.02

[sithot]

Noonan had this at SEMA.

$20,500


"Noonan delivers a replica world first all Billet 911 Porsche case, bringing the almost extinct engine back in a more reliable and race ready application. The Noonan Billet 911 Porsche case has been developed utilising the 911 Porsche cast architecture and brings a new levels of strength and rigidity to extend engine life for endurance road racing applications or the die hard Porsche restorer.

After a successful season of on track testing with Renn-Link Racing, USA the engine case is now being released to the marketplace. The engine showed incredible durability and reliability throughout the season, with almost 60 hours on track time utilizing the same bearings, Team Crew Chief – Tim Carey said, “the engine has exceeded our expectations beyond belief. We have always had to replace bearings at 25-30 hours and generally scrap the engine case due to fatigue and cracking in the weak zones, the billet case has by far out performed this and we are excited to see how far we can really push it.”
The billet case is manufactured from 6061 Aluminum sourced locally in America."

[Edoyle]

^^very interesting. Some good points Catorce.

VW type1 cases are roughly 2/3rds of a 6 cyclinder 911 case and they are easily mass produced and sold affordably so we know that it can be done.