Spherical bushings vs Poly Bronze?

[The Greek]

Longtime member on rennlist, but i got bit by the longhood bug and picked up a 1972 911t with sc fenders. Im 90% there on my suspension build sheet (helped a lot by friend and other members) but I am stuck on the bushings.

What is the consensus on hybrid sphericals like Rebel or Elephant? Do they last? Are they a harsh ride? Anyone tried both?

At first I was going to just get elephant rubber bushings, but then read up on Poly. But I really dont want to deal with grease maintenance, and with my luck they will squeak. I am considering rebel racing spherical since they have rears also. Elephant only sells the front.

Here is my current suspension spec.

Front RSR custom valve front shocks with 19mm raised spindle.
Rear custom Sport shocks
21/27mm Torsion bars (Since I have SC fenders. Running 15x7 in rear)
Rear trailing arm bushing
Adjustable spring plates
20mm sway bars
Turbo Tie rods

[911 Rod]

Are the spherical bushing not the latest and greatest to replace the polybronze?
I hate having grease everywhere.

[911pcars]

Polybronze is a hybrid to help reduce noise and vibration. They need lube.

A spherical bearings is a metal-to-metal bearing and as such, there's little play ... and cushioning, thus any ride harshness is accentuated. They also need lube.

Sherwood

[The Greek]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Polybronze is a hybrid to help reduce noise and vibration. They need lube.

A spherical bearings is a metal-to-metal bearing and as such, there's little play ... and cushioning, thus any ride harshness is accentuated. They also need lube.

Sherwood

I thought the Rebel Racing sphericals bushings didn’t need any grease or maintenance?

Just use shims and washers to make sure they are level.

[JacobS911]

Originally Posted by The Greek

I thought the Rebel Racing sphericals bushings didn’t need any grease or maintenance?

Just use shims and washers to make sure they are level.

They don't..

I have rebel racing sphericals front and rear. No squeaky noise. No grease. I love them and would recommend them 100%.

[gtc]

I think you guys are confusing the Elephant Racing "Sphericals" bushings with the Rebel Racing bushings. They both use a self-lubricating bearing material, but Rebel uses a cylindrical bushing, while Elephant has a spherical bushing to supposedly eliminate suspension bind caused by chassis flex.

[JacobS911]

Originally Posted by gtc

I think you guys are confusing the Elephant Racing "Sphericals" bushings with the Rebel Racing bushings. They both use a self-lubricating bearing material, but Rebel uses a cylindrical bushing, while Elephant has a spherical bushing to supposedly eliminate suspension bind caused by chassis flex.

Yes, you're correct. Good catch!

[jpnovak]

The RSR and Elephant bushings have very similar characteristics in terms of suspension compliance. The Elephant "Sphericals" have a cylindrical inner wall to mate with the bearing race on the A-arm and a radiused outer wall that allows for rotation of the mounting collar. The BIG advantage to these bushings is on an older car where there has been collision or rust repair causing mis-alignment of the front suspension mounting points. They are super easy to install. Just bolt up and go.

From a driving perspective. Once the Rebel or polybronze or sphericals are installed properly you should not notice any difference. The polybronze will need periodic lubrication. I have run all of these options and they are vastly improved compared to rubber. IMO they do not ride harsh. They do not transmit any noticeable noise compared to any other old 911. Once you have suspension compliance of this type you will never go back.

[jpnovak]

duplicate post deleted. Server issue

[911pcars]

An attempt to dispel anecdotal theories:

What is it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_bearing
"A spherical bearing by itself consists of an outer ring and an inner ring and a locking feature that makes the inner ring captive within the outer ring in the axial direction only. The outer surface of the inner ring and the inner surface of the outer ring are spherical (or more correctly, toroidal) and are collectively considered the raceway and they slide against each other, either with a lubricant, a maintenance-free (typically polytetrafluoroethylene or PTFE) based liner, or they incorporate a rolling element such as a race of ball-bearings, allowing lower friction. "

Lubrication
https://www.astbearings.com/spherical-plain-bearings-lubrication.html

[The Greek]

Originally Posted by JacobS911

They don't..

I have rebel racing sphericals front and rear. No squeaky noise. No grease. I love them and would recommend them 100%.

This is great feedback. Is your car mostly for spirited driving? Or track?

I’ve read on some forums after 5 years the Rebels are still going strong.

[tirwin]

I have the ER sphericals on the front control arms of my ‘83. Polybronze in the rear. Hard to say the impact of just the sphericals because I did so many other things in the process. But I am overall extremely pleased with the results. The sphericals do not need grease. Chuck told me that the material used for the bushing was designed to his specs. It includes kevlar or teflon... I can’t remember.

[The Greek]

Originally Posted by tirwin

I have the ER sphericals on the front control arms of my ‘83. Polybronze in the rear. Hard to say the impact of just the sphericals because I did so many other things in the process. But I am overall extremely pleased with the results. The sphericals do not need grease. Chuck told me that the material used for the bushing was designed to his specs. It includes kevlar or teflon... I can’t remember.

How has your experience been with Poly bronze in the back? Any squeaking or noises? My plan was to grease them quarterly if I ended up getting them.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by The Greek

How has your experience been with Poly bronze in the back? Any squeaking or noises? My plan was to grease them quarterly if I ended up getting them.

I have some squeaking but I don't think it's from the bushings. I think I need to put more shims between the spring plate and the spring plate cover on the driver side. I just haven't had time to mess with it.

The general rule of thumb is to grease the poly bronze at every oil change.

I was talking to one of the guys at a local Porsche shop -- Goldcrest Motorsports. They do the engine and suspension work for Leh Keen's safari cars. They were telling me they found a particular grease that virtually eliminates any squeaking. I ran into Chuck Moreland at RennSport Reunion in the fall and asked him about it. He said that he had discussed it with the guys at Goldcrest and he was going to do some tests to see if it was as good as advertised. I've been meaning to follow up but haven't had time to.

[Otter74]

Originally Posted by The Greek

How has your experience been with Poly bronze in the back? Any squeaking or noises? My plan was to grease them quarterly if I ended up getting them.

I have polybronze bushings front and rear on my SC Targa, and monoballs in the rear. Stock torsion bars, street driven. I do have an intermitten sort of groan as the rear wheels drop over the apron of my garage into the alley, but I don't think it's the bushings. I grease them every oil change (once/year), and drive the car about 4k-5k per year. Overall I'm very happy with them (the PO installed them). Car is tight (good alignment helps, too) and with the stock bars it rides better than my Saab on Chicago streets even with the bushings.

[safe]

I've had the polybronze for 10+ years, no squeaks, not harsher than the worn out rubber.
Edit: come to think about it, they did squeak last year, but then I remembered that I hadn't greased them for 2 years and 8000-10000 miles...

I've got elephants spherical in track car, nice and easy to install product. But I've driven it too few miles to say anythng about them. Also the car is stiffly sprung and really noisy (have to drive with earplugs) so I can't say if they are harsh. Probably not.

Something to consider: Both designs are "open" so dirt will get in (not different to Rebel I think), but with the polybronze you can push it out with new grease. If it wasn't for a trackday car I would use OEM type rubber.
Good rubber bushings like what Elephant is now offering wasn't available when I put in the polybronze.

"The greek": By the build sheet it seems like your building a hot street car. Go with rubber.

[The Greek]

Cant thank everyone enough for the feedback. Sounds like the squeaking of Poly is overblown. Good to hear it doesnt require tons of attention.

Safe, Yea you can say its going to be a hot rodder. Trying to find that compromise (if it exists) between hot rod and more tolerable ride on street. The general feedback has been that poly is superior to rubber. But then I noticed the sphericals and wanted to inquire.

Basically this project is a money pit. And I havent even started on the motor

[safe]

Originally Posted by The Greek

Basically this project is a money pit.

Been there, still there actually...

[JacobS911]

Originally Posted by The Greek

This is great feedback. Is your car mostly for spirited driving? Or track?

I’ve read on some forums after 5 years the Rebels are still going strong.

Spirited driving.. Drove to rennsport last fall 3k plus road trip.