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Told non-tracked cars don't need high ZDDP. Opinions?

Without starting the oil brand debate, I have always used VR-1 or Brad Penn. I was told by a local Euro service shop that the VR-1 racing oil and high ZDDP is not really necessary in cars that aren't tracked. Up here in the northeast, I only put about 3,000 miles on a year. I know the debate rages on between synthetic oil and what conventional oil to use, but I'd like to keep this thread about wether the high ZDDP is only necessary for tracked cars that are driven hard.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:37 AM
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Whatís the downside to running those or similar oils? Probably cost? But depending how often you change the oil (2x per year for a gentle driver?), itís probably not a big cost difference given whatís at stake inside your carís engine. I say this only for perspective realizing it doesnít answer your question directly. I run the VR1 synthetic 20/50 in my SC and 930 because it simplifies things for me come oil change day(s). FWIT- Iím drip free (in my Porsches).
Old 02-18-2019, 10:47 AM
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Time to find a new service shop. All flat tappet engines, which includes 911 air cooled engines, require some level of zddp, it's what protects the metal to metal contact surfaces primarily between the cam lobes and the tops of the valves. Many (most?) contemporary oils have far too low a level of zinc and phosphorous because current emissions regulations have essentially made them nonexistent. Has nothing to do with racing versus street driving.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djcdmv View Post
Without starting the oil brand debate, I have always used VR-1 or Brad Penn. I was told by a local Euro service shop that the VR-1 racing oil and high ZDDP is not really necessary in cars that aren't tracked. Up here in the northeast, I only put about 3,000 miles on a year. I know the debate rages on between synthetic oil and what conventional oil to use, but I'd like to keep this thread about wether the high ZDDP is only necessary for tracked cars that are driven hard.
The lumpier the cam the more likely it is that it will benefit from higher ZDDP, but only to a point.

Most 911s from "74-89 have smog cams w/ little to no overlap and less lift that the earlier S cams. These won't benefit as much from higher ZDDP.

That said the range of ZDDP currently available in select oils like M1 15w-50, VR1, BP 20w-50, Penngrade(nee Brad penn) 20w-50 are going to be sufficient for any engine. The level of ZDDP in these oils ranges from ~1200 to 1400ppm.


You might be able to get by w/ a smog motor @levels down to 1000ppm, But why risk it. Better to use a known good oil than to experiment.

Too little and too much ZDDP is an issue, <1000 or >1600 is detrimental. The >1600 has an exception in break in oils which are only used for a short period of time then changed to the regular oil.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:31 AM
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Thanks bill . very helpful. I am running Gibbs XP3 in a full-on high comp, twin plug race motor.
is the zddp in that sufficient? pretty lumpy cams thanks . frank
Old 02-18-2019, 03:16 PM
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From a personal point of view, I do not want to find out using low ZDDP oils will damage my motor.

All I know is that I have had my 911 since 2002 and 115000 miles. I have used high ZDDP oils for all of my ownership with changes every 3000 miles.

At 160000 miles I had to do a top end due to my stupidity and the internals looked great except for the parts I damaged. What ever I might have saved from a lesser oil (I use Brad Penn/PennGrade 20W-50) is trivial.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:17 PM
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All I know is that I flattened lobes on both cams by using NON ZDDP oil. Pretty much what lead to my top end rebuild.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:41 PM
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Good technical info in this thread on RL.

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/863862-porsche-classic-motor-oil-explained-by-porsche-guys-6.html
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:49 PM
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i have talked to oil techs from several companies.
they have said after a certain point the added zddp does not do any good.

my opinion?
other things wear out faster such as guides and rings that require a top end before the valve train.
especially for turbos, the syn is more important than the 200ppm more in dyno oil for turbo protection from coking.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:34 AM
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also very important to get oil to the heads early after cold starts. If heads run dry on every cold start because oil is too thick when cold then ZDDP is irrelevant
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Old 02-19-2019, 05:33 AM
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