torsion bars/can they be drilled and tapped???

[randykyra]

I just got a set of Adjustable / quick change spring plates from Elephant racing. I really don't want to spend the extra money on quick change torsion bars and was wondering if there was a reason why I couldn't drill and tap my torsion bars so you're able to insert a bolt to make removal easier and not have to remove the spring plates.

Thanks

[seafeye]

Not sure you would want to change the structural integrity. How about welding on a nut. So you can screw a bolt into that?
Worked on my 944

[911pcars]

Welding heat on a heat-treated, tempered torsion bar? Uh. Might change the spring rate.

[randykyra]

Tony,
You worried me for a second and made me think about it. I even went down to the garage to confirm what I was thinking.
If you look at the bars the out portion is larger in diameter then the inner portion. The new spring plates from Elephant racing are open on the outer end with "C" clips holding the bars in. So remove the "C" clip and pull the bar out from the big-end...
Hope I explained that well???

Elephant racing torsion bars for the quick change spring plates (which I just bought) are threaded at the end so you can insert a bolt and easily pull the Torsion bars for either ride height adjustment or replacement. I was hoping I could just drill and tap mine for easy removal.

[randykyra]

OK that's weird. Someone named tony had posted the below question and now it's gone.

Randy,

How would you be able to pull rear torsion bar with the spring plate in situ? The spline number at the inner (40) and outer (44) ends of the torsion bars are not identical. The rear torsion bar/s will not pass through the spring plate housing(?). Maybe I am missing something. Could help me understand how would you do it. Thanks.

Tony

I figure it out.

I got the email notification that he posted to the thread. Then as I was typing a reply he deleted it...




I'm not crazy... Well when it comes to this at least...

[randykyra]

Ok, back to my original question. So can I drill it? I think I can keep it cool with plenty of lube and i don't need a big hole, just one large enough to thread a small bolt to make it easier to pull the torsion bar...

Anyone???

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by randykyra

OK that's weird. Someone named tony had posted a question about the removal of the torsion bar and how could I do that and that post is gone.

That is strange. I was wondering what you were talking about and who Tony was.

I’ll be following this thread closely. I’m interested to see if there are any options beyond the elephant racing torsion bars, they are quite spendy compared to just getting the spring plates. I’d like to be able to significantly change the ride height of my car twice a year with minimal effort and expense.

[randykyra]

Found this post on another site (VW)...
I think I got my answer.. (yes, i can do it)
Take a look and give me your opinions.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68720&start=0

[stownsen914]

A couple thoughts ...

I read the samba thread you linked and couldn't quite follow what they were saying to weld. Don't take a welder anywhere near a torsion bar. The heat would ruin the temper. You'd be lucky if it only changed the spring rate. I'd worry about the torsion bar breaking while in use.

As for drilling and tapping, you'd want to make sure not to introduce stress risers, which can also cause failure of the torsion bar. I would think hand drilling and tapping (if you could even do it on a the hardened metal) would leave imperfections that might do just that. You might be wise to have a machine shop do this.

[randykyra]

I have an old set of Torsion bars that are already damaged and are trashed. So I figured I could try it out with those. I'll have 4 attempts there
I may just go to a machine shop. I have a friend that is pretty good setup and does a lot of machining and i was going to use his drill press to drill the bar. I really don't need much. just enough to set the bolt and be able to pull on it to get the torsion bar out...

Originally Posted by stownsen914

A couple thoughts ...

I read the samba thread you linked and couldn't quite follow what they were saying to weld. Don't take a welder anywhere near a torsion bar. The heat would ruin the temper. You'd be lucky if it only changed the spring rate. I'd worry about the torsion bar breaking while in use.

As for drilling and tapping, you'd want to make sure not to introduce stress risers, which can also cause failure of the torsion bar. I would think hand drilling and tapping (if you could even do it on a the hardened metal) would leave imperfections that might do just that. You might be wise to have a machine shop do this.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by randykyra

OK that's weird. Someone named tony had posted the below question and now it's gone.

Randy,

How would you be able to pull rear torsion bar with the spring plate in situ? The spline number at the inner (40) and outer (44) ends of the torsion bars are not identical. The rear torsion bar/s will not pass through the spring plate housing(?). Maybe I am missing something. Could help me understand how would you do it. Thanks.

Tony

I figure it out.

I got the email notification that he posted to the thread. Then as I was typing a reply he deleted it........


I'm not crazy... Well when it comes to this at least...

Randy,

You were not imagining things. I deleted my original post because I realized that the inner spine section has about 33 mm OD and the outer smile section has 36 mm. So I quickly deleted it after realizing it. I thought it was the other way around.

Tony

[randykyra]

[UROParts]

Few things are as un-fun as drilling spring steel after it's been heat treated. Elephant racing probably has theirs drilled and tapped prior to heat treatment.

A machine shop using a lathe, coolant and a carbide drill could make the hole, but tapping will still be tough.

[winders]

Trying to take shortcuts to save spending money here is penny wise and pound foolish. Buy the right torsions for what you want to do.

[randykyra]

Scott,
Why is it foolish that I want to save $450? Please enlighten us. I posted the question to see if someone could tell me the FACTS why it could or couldn't be done. If it's simply drilling and taping the one end why wouldn't you do it? And spend the money else where. If this build was just about spending money I would have had someone else do all the work to the car and yes just bought a set of torsion bars.
I could say to you "a fool and his money are soon parted"... But this build is about learning things. If it turns out that it can't be done or done safely then a set will be bought.
I still ask anyone that reads this thread, can it be done? but base your answer on facts , experience or both and post them.

Originally Posted by winders

Trying to take shortcuts to save spending money here is penny wise and pound foolish. Buy the right torsions for what you want to do.

[UROParts]

Originally Posted by randykyra

I still ask anyone that reads this thread, can it be done? but base your answer on facts , experience or both and post them.

Post #13 is fact based.

[gtc]

Do you have any idea what they are talking about in that samba thread? Have you seen the front torsion bars on a beetle?
Take a look at the photos on these two pages for some perspective:
Oh Lord, what have I done? (page 4)
Oh Lord, what have I done? (page 5)

You've already received several replies suggesting it would be neither easy nor safe. Why don't you just go ahead and do it and let us know how it goes?

Originally Posted by randykyra

Found this post on another site (VW)...
I think I got my answer.. (yes, i can do it)
Take a look and give me your opinions.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68720&start=0

Originally Posted by randykyra

Scott,
Why is it foolish that I want to save $450? Please enlighten us. I posted the question to see if someone could tell me the FACTS why it could or couldn't be done. If it's simply drilling and taping the one end why wouldn't you do it? And spend the money else where. If this build was just about spending money I would have had someone else do all the work to the car and yes just bought a set of torsion bars.
I could say to you "a fool and his money are soon parted"... But this build is about learning things. If it turns out that it can't be done or done safely then a set will be bought.
I still ask anyone that reads this thread, can it be done? but base your answer on facts , experience or both and post them.

[randykyra]

GTC,
Interesting... I hadn't seen a set ot 356 torsion bars before... I just assumed they were like the 911 / 912's... guess i shouldn't assume.
Most of my the replies are pretty general... like "i wouldn't do that" I was hoping someone would post some data backing up the claims or say, hey, I did it and this happened...
Like I posted before I have a set that are damaged so I have 4 ends I can try and see what happens. That's the route I'm going to take for now.

I have a local machine shop I've used on a number of occasions that does really good work so I may speak with them before jumping in with my good set, No matter the results I get with the damaged pair I'm going to experiment on...

[UROParts]

Originally Posted by randykyra

No matter the results I get with the damaged pair I'm going to experiment on...

"Smell that? Love the smell of smoking drill bits and burnt cutting oil in the morning...smells like...victory."

[Anglocanadian]

I would say if you can drill the hole with a HSS drill bit you can tap it.
If you need to use carbide you will never be able to tap it and it could possibly break off in the hole.