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3.6 conversion throttle cable recommendations?

When I installed my 3.6 in my ‘86 I used all Instant-g pieces and was very happy with everything I got. I’ve known Steve Timmins for close to 25 years so have lots of respect for what he’s done for the conversion world.

However the only part I really haven’t been happy with has been the throttle cable and gas pedal feel. Not as smooth and linear feeling as when the original 3.2 was in there. Looking for alternatives.

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Ed
'86 911 Coupe (endless 3.6 transplant finally done!)
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 Turbodiesel (yes they make one)
'97 BMW 528i (the sensible car, bought new)
'12 Vintage/Millenium 23' v-nose enclosed trailer
Old 03-16-2019, 04:54 AM
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Mine is all stretched out. Not sure if its his, but I am planning on going to the Patrick Motorsports one I think.
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Chris -
1975 911s "Outlaw Rat-Rod" - steel wide body, 3.6 conversion
1989 911 Carrera 25th Anniversary Ed (5th from the last car to ever leave the original Porsche factory assembly line) - SW Chip, Fabspeed Headers & Exhaust, RetroAir A/C
2001 996 Turbo - ~42k miles

Last edited by Duc Hunter; 03-16-2019 at 07:09 AM..
Old 03-16-2019, 07:00 AM
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My application is racing, so your needs and wants may differ. If you search these forums for some related threads with my Pelican name (mahler9th) you can likely gain some perspective.
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:32 AM
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Don't quite understand this cable throttle control thing.
I put a 964 motor into my '80SC way back in in 1992, way before
there were any transplant "kits" available.
When it came time to hookup a throttle method, I just hooked it up just like the SC CIS (or Carrera) motor hookup. i.e. I used the standard 915 trans belcrank which then uses a rod unit that goes to the engine case mounted belcrank console and then the rod to the throttle lever. I was even able to hook up the SC cruise control to it with little problem.
Been driving with this throttle linkage for 27yrs with no problems.
Perhaps there is some problem I don't understand and if so please enlighten me. Don't know about any difference between 964 vs 993,
but the OP just said 3.6 motor.
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'80SC Widebody 3.6 transplant Anthracite "The Rocket"
Long gone but still miss them all:
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:11 AM
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My Instant G 3.6 transplant is going on 4 yrs. track use only.
To get a quicker throttle response, I just added 2' length to the throttle lever arm.
Make sure your brake pedal is adjusted to the gas pedal to suit your style of heel & toe.
Also make sure the full throttle switch gets actuated (unless your doing a dyno run to class your car)
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:28 PM
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I got rid of the bicycle cable. Never liked it.

I installed the SC throttle console on top of the 3.6 where cruise bolts. And made a custom accelerator rod to the throttle body. Basically the original design.

It's perfect.
Old 03-17-2019, 06:33 AM
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I used the Patrick unit when i did my 3.6 transplant , no issues that i can remember, although i think i had to play with the adjustment rods under the car to get the correct length.
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Phil

89 Coupe,Black,95 3.6 engine and the list goes on ...
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:59 AM
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uwanna- My engine is a 964 3.6. I'll have to look at the Carrera hardware, I still have all the pieces. Never considered just adapting all that onto the 3.6

3rd_gear_Ted- I have lengthened the bell crank on the side of the trans too, would have to measure but I think it's more like 1.5"

faverymi- exactly, just not sure the bicycle cable is the the right thing here. If you have any pics of the way you adapted from the SC throttle console to the throttle body I'd be grateful, though I know it's virtually impossible to get a pic when the engine is in the car.

Thanks everyone.
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'86 911 Coupe (endless 3.6 transplant finally done!)
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 Turbodiesel (yes they make one)
'97 BMW 528i (the sensible car, bought new)
'12 Vintage/Millenium 23' v-nose enclosed trailer
Old 03-17-2019, 09:11 AM
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/995566-sc-964-throttle-linkage.html#post10025968

Forth post
Old 03-17-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faverymi View Post
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/995566-sc-964-throttle-linkage.html#post10025968

Forth post
Here's the link and the pic SC and 964 Throttle Linkage
This is exactly how I did mine, bomb proof! Pic credit to fellow Pelican (safe)
One thing to be advised about is the bushings in the engine mounted belcrank console wear quite a bit over the years,
so I would suggest inspecting them and replacing them if worn. They are available from our host.


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'80SC Widebody 3.6 transplant Anthracite "The Rocket"
Long gone but still miss them all:
'77 911 Targa, '72 BMW 3.0CS Coupe(finest car I ever had!)
'71 911T Coupe White, '70 911T Coupe Blue
'68 911 Coupe Orange, '68 911L Soft Window Targa

Last edited by uwanna; 03-17-2019 at 11:21 AM..
Old 03-17-2019, 11:15 AM
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That's exactly what I'm looking for, thanks!!
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Ed
'86 911 Coupe (endless 3.6 transplant finally done!)
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 Turbodiesel (yes they make one)
'97 BMW 528i (the sensible car, bought new)
'12 Vintage/Millenium 23' v-nose enclosed trailer
Old 03-17-2019, 02:25 PM
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I have the Patrick Motorsports cable and it's nice and smooth. Has anyone been able to make it more aggressive? I was thinking of moving the ball by the pedal closer to the pivot point.
Old 03-18-2019, 07:40 AM
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Again, my application is racing.

I now have a 3.6 with a 964 TB and modest cams (per class rules). I used to have a 3.8 with super aggro cams and a big aftermarket TB (one designed for a 5L Mustang).

In both cases, I just bolted a ball onto the TB so I could use a conventional 911 linkage. As you all should know, 964 and 993 used cables.

There re all kinds of cable choices... factory 964 units can be adapted (there are threads on this), bicycle cables, and custom racing cables and everything in between. Lots of possibilities.

One thing I did years ago with my set up was to modify the geometry for light throttle openings. We try to spend as much time at WOT as possible in racing (duh) but of course throttle response and feel at light throttle can be important.

One of the benefits of ITBS (the AT Power units being the best out there right now) and slides (sexy) is throttle response, as compared to large single butterfly TBs.

So what I did was modify my geometry by altering the lever (bell crank) on the tranny. By altering this part (which cost about $10 for welding) I was able to get better light throttle feel/performance. Remember, arc length equals radius time theta.

This worked very well for my application.

I got the idea from my engine builder who used to race in IMSA and has a wealth (understatement) of knowledge.

I did not achieve ITB or slide-like performance, but I improved things quite a bit.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:18 PM
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Those little linkage balls and/or cups can be obtained from places that deal with carbs, like PMO. If you are the least bit clever you can easily find a way to bolt them onto a 3.6 (964 or 993) TB. For linkage, you can find various rods with the right thread pattern, or just but threaded rod at a hardware store.

I have a bunch of odds and ends in my track spares kit... picked up a bunch of different pieces out of the bins at my favorite dismantler Partsheaven.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:22 PM
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Here you can see an adapted 993 TB (I sold this one in the forums long ago):



and the adapted BBK (5.0) big boy I used up until my recent engine config change (I sold this one earlier this year).




Yes, with the right cams and headers, the 80 mm BBK made more power than a stock 3.6 TB. Was pretty easy to configure it to work with the 3.6 plastic intake system.
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Last edited by Mahler9th; 03-18-2019 at 06:30 PM..
Old 03-18-2019, 06:27 PM
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Finally, consider this....

what you may feel is lacking may not be the cable at all. It may be the geometry.

Tuning the geometry using methods like what I described may get you the feel you want.
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Last edited by Mahler9th; 03-18-2019 at 06:37 PM..
Old 03-18-2019, 06:32 PM
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Concept:

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Old 03-18-2019, 06:37 PM
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Mike, great input. You’re correct, what I’m looking for is better, more fluid pedal feel. Engine side lever arm on the trans bell crank has been lengthened .75”.

I have 3 ft of stainless unthreaded rod on the shelf in my garage for another project (my Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit has 4 wheel air suspension that lowers 1” at speeds over 55, but I wanted it lowered an additional inch. Made longer links for all four corners out of basic threaded rod with end links to pop over the ball studs on the suspension sensor arms, sources the pieces from McMaster Carr, now want to use unthreaded stainless rod instead.... yea, I can’t leave anything stock.)

My engine is probably similar to yours- 3.6, CP 11.5:1 pistons, Dougherty 993SS cams, good valve springs and retainers, 1” larger intake valves with some very mild intake flow work, George’s 1.75” headers. Track motor I built to run NASA GTS3 though I’m too light and will get stuck in GTS4 so I’ll be able to run slicks at least. Also PCA GT and Vintage. So like you, WOT is 90% of the time, though there are places like the Caroussel at Road America where rolling on the throttle through the turn is vital, likewise Mid-Ohio turn 1, or the climbing esses at VIR. All fast 4th or 5th gear turns where you can’t go WOT right away. I don’t think I’m going to like the throttle feel in these spots.

I need to source a new throttle body too, the plastic intake I bought for my engine was supposed to be from a ‘94 ROW engine but I suspect it was a ‘95 993 engine because it has a potentiometer on the right side of the throttle plate instead of the cam and full throttle microswitch, so on the dyno this past weekend I was getting some strange AFR’s in the 4300-4400 range, but with the O2 sensor unplugged forcing open loop it was fine. I stole a proper throttle body off a friends car and put it on but same thing so I’m guessing I hadn’t piggybacked the correct full throttle wire out of the pot to connect the full throttle switch. Once I get a throttle body, I’ll add a ball like yours and use the stainless rod and ends I have on my shelf. Thanks
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'86 911 Coupe (endless 3.6 transplant finally done!)
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 Turbodiesel (yes they make one)
'97 BMW 528i (the sensible car, bought new)
'12 Vintage/Millenium 23' v-nose enclosed trailer

Last edited by 175K911; 03-19-2019 at 04:09 AM..
Old 03-19-2019, 04:06 AM
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Sounds like you are on the right track.

BTW, my engine specs are dictated by my racing class. And I run aftermarket EFI, which of course is much more flexible than DME. I use an old Haltech, and I use an aftermarket TPS instead of a factory unit.

I think there are several different 964 and 993 TBs. Since I use aftermarket TPS and EFI, my tb spec is driven by size-- has to be a stock 3.6 size. I think the one I am using now is from some type of 964. It was easy to fab up a way of mounting the Haltech TPS.

I have never used DME in a racing application... but then again, the car had Haltech when I bought it.

I like the flexibility and simplicity of aftermarket EFI. If I had to buy a system today, it'd be another Haltech. My friend/engine builder has decades of experience with Haltech.

My car is a '75, and it had a 3.8 when I bought it from my friend/engine builder. He has some different and clever ways of doing things (e.g., we don't run 964 or 993 fans/alternators).
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Last edited by Mahler9th; 03-19-2019 at 09:27 AM..
Old 03-19-2019, 09:24 AM
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I used a 964 throttle cable after trying the timmins one first. Much happier. For some reason the search on Pelican isn't working (at all?) so I can't find it. I did have to grab a brass fitting from Home Depot (per the thread) to make a bit of an adapter. Super smooth and buttery now...

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Old 03-22-2019, 09:06 PM
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